Arctic Cat has done a nice job of briefly explaining some of the technology on the new 2012 sleds HERE on their website. And I will soon post my own version of this info. But for my first post about these machines, I wanted to give you something other than just specs.
After witnessing the evolution of project-F4 during the past three years, then recently spending the better part of three days riding pre-production versions of the 2012 Arctic Cat snowmobile line, here are nine observations I’d like to share.
One…Rigidity: Ditch-bangers rejoice! The combination of a pyramidal chassis, a 2-piece tunnel and a drop in weight has produced one SERIOUSLY responsive chassis. In fact, that’s the first thing I notice every time I ride one of these sleds. Make an input into the chassis (whether it’s to lean it into snow, brake-pitch it into a corner or try to get stylish on a jump) and it reacts INSTANTLY.
Two…Weight: The ProCross chassis is significantly lighter than the Twin Spar. According to Arctic Cat, the 2012 F800 is 57 lbs. lighter than a ’11 F8. An F1100 is 51 lbs. lighter than a Z1, while the F1100 Turbo is a full 64 lbs. lighter than a Z1 Turbo. That’s a serious Jenny Craig program. These sleds feel light because they are light. My hope is that Arctic Cat will provide actual weights when they have actual production machines (the sleds that journalists rode the past couple of weeks have some non-production materials and parts).
Three…Ergonomics: Ergo’s make the sled…good or bad. When the touch points are smart, rounded and natural, a sled feels “right.” Which is exactly what Arctic Cat did with the cockpit of the new F, XF and M sleds.
The seat is narrower and naturally curved/tapered for leaning into corners. The plastic where your knees push up against the cowling is rounded and smooth, so there’s no uncomfortable “contact.”
Handlebars are the same design/shape that we’ve had on the Twin Spar chassis, which I personally think is the best shape in the biz. The XF and M sleds get a new, stiff-plastic grab bar that I like better than the last mountain-style handlebar.
The running boards are wide (plenty of room for my size-12 snocross-style boots), and foot placement is comfortably-forward.
Four…Race Chassis development: Arctic Cat said they were using the 2008-current Sno Pro race sled as a development tool for their next consumer sled. The evidence for this can be seen in several areas, most notably the tall spindles; taller spacing between the upper and lower A-arms; steel spars.
There are definitely similarities in how the new ProCross chassis rides compared with the Sno Pro, particularly in the rider position, chassis rigidity and chassis response to rider input.
But the ProCross is a far more refined sled. The seat is more comfortable with more foam yet less “square” edging, so it’s easier to move around on. The contact points for the legs (around the seat, fuel tank on knee area) are rounded and more comfortable. I prefer the regular Slide-Action rear suspension in the ProCross chassis over the race version in the Sno Pro, primarily because it’s more predictable and comfortable in chop or hard-edged bumps. And of course, the fit/finish is worlds apart.
Five…Compared to my Sno Pro 500: I absolutely love my 2010 Sno Pro 500. Think it’s one of the all-time great Arctic Cat sleds. And while there are some significant similarities with the new 2012 Cats (like rider position on the chassis, some of the ergo’s, chassis rigidity and reaction to input), the Sno Pro is definitely a race sled…loud, buzzy, marginal headlight performance, stiff. The new sled has smoothed over all those rough spots, with a level of refinement that most of us will appreciate.
Six…Easy steering: Arctic Cat engineers prided themselves on the easy-steering nature of the Twin Spar chassis, and made a point of not sacrificing that easy-going trait on the new sleds using a single bell-crank. As a little guy (5’ 8” and 155 lbs.), I personally prefer a little less front-arm travel, and a little more positive steering than how they set the sleds up for the media to ride. The steering is SO light right now that I’m fine giving up a little there in order to have more ski pressure. One thing’s for certain, there will be NO need for a $750-$1,000 retail up-charge because they need to add power steering.
The XF (formerly Crossfire) models are literally transformed by the new steering system (and the handlebar placement/steering geometry). Now the handlebars turn in an arc that’s natural to the rider’s position, with an ease that will astound Crossfire owners.
Seven…50th Anniversary model: Taste is in the eye of the beholder. Still…by marrying the new sled with classic late-‘70s Team Arctic graphics, Arctic Cat absolutely knocked one out of the styling park with their 50th Anniversary edition models. Simply stunning. The only bummer: they won’t be available with the 800 engine.
Eight…Packaging: It was a feat of CAD-CAM engineering, cooling strategies and creativity to create a chassis/bodywork package that’s as tight as the new Arctic Cats, and yet accommodates a turbocharged 4-stroke engine (and the 800 of course). Compared to the Twin Spar chassis, there is less wind protection. The new hood is significantly smaller by comparison.
Nine…No 600 2-stroke: Yep, the glaring hole in the 2012 line is the space normally reserved for a 600cc 2-stroke twin, which is gone. Instead, we have two options: stick with a 2-stroke and bump up to the 800 H.O., or stick with 120-ish horsepower and opt for the 1100 4-stroke. To the die-hard 600 rider, neither option is great. I feel your pain, bro, and this is what I’ll tell you:
After a season riding a 2011 F800, I have fallen in love with this engine. So has my wife, who rides about 200 miles a year, as well as my son who’s in 3rd grade. It’s a motor that kicks butt when you want, yet can be ridden at a snail’s pace all day long, like we did over New Year’s when my mother-in-law rode with us for a few days. My point is that no 600 rider should be intimidated by the 800 H.O.
Conversely, the 1100 definitely “comes to life” when it’s in a package that’s 51 lbs. lighter than the Twin Spar. And it isn’t just more lively…its inherent weight is well hidden in the ProCross chassis, because the F1100 and XF1100 are flickable like no other 4-stroke I’ve ridden. I believe these sleds will satisfy the vast majority of 600-class riders.
Worth mentioning…the F1100 LXR has an MSRP of $10,600 U.S./$12,400 Canadian, while the F800 LXR is $11,900 U.S./$13,700 Canadian MSRP.
Ten…So Fast It’s Sick: That describes the any version of the 1100 Turbo. With a 64-lb. weight reduction from the Twin Spar Turbo, the new Arctic Drive System with Torque Control Link putting more power to the drive train, and a decidedly smaller frontal area (read: better aerodynamics), the new Turbos are truly stupid-fast. Seriously.
You will hear a chorus of magazine and web editors trying to explain how wicked-fast the Turbo is. Believe them.
The shot above was taken on Lake of the Woods, in the spring of 2010.
OK, John, do tell. Who won the race above?
Will the spead freaks who opted for the Crossfire because it was decidedly faster than the twin spar be happy?
That Anniversary edition is absolutely killer! Im honestly bouncing around the house with excitement. The 1100 version will be in my garage this Fall!
So John: When is an affordable 600 two stroke going to appear? I do not care what they say about the 1100 being equal to the 600’s of the other brands. I dont like the feel of the four strokes nor the fact that you need to have Electric start and then of course the battery. What happens to this 4 stroke when you roll it or when you foul a spark plug. My gut tells me the sled is dead until you go to a dealer to fix it. When do we get our 600 two smoke?
Ergonomics??? They haven’t fixed anything. The buttons are flimsy and the reverse button is a pain in the butt to press with gloves on!! I was expecting some big changes for 2012. Im dissapointed.
Captain: In a series of races that day (March of ’10) the two sleds ran pretty even. In terms of development/calibration on the new chassis, that was EONS ago. It’s much faster now.
Put it this way: Jamie Edwards, an engineer at Cat and a successful grass drag racer, told me he’s finally going to retire his ’03 F7 because of what he’s seen with the speed/acceleration of the new sled.
Jim R: I don’t have an answer to your question about if a 600 is coming. I’m going to explore that subject in a couple weeks with a story here.
Why no retro 800? Dont make me buy a turbo, I cant afford one. Where’s the direct inject 600? Major mistake leaving that hole in the biggest selling segment.
Too bad you have to pay the premium for the 800, a 600 should be about the same price as the f1100, which I think is reasonable. I’m not paying $1300 extra for something I don’t want.
Nice job Cat, the new sleds are nothing short of stunning. Kinda like a really hot chick, you can’t wait to take one for a ride. Whoa, did I just say that out loud? I’m more than a little disturbed about the absence of a 600 though. I can’t help but wonder if all the diehard 2 stroke guys waiting for the new “600 DI motor” will be willing to settle for a Z1. You gotta think a 600 could be $1000 – 1500 less than an 800. Just my thought.
Will: I disagree what constitutes “big changes.” New hand controls are not big changes in my book, but a complete chassis redesign…new drive system…new plastic…revised skidframe…are definitely big. I think most people wanted those kind of big changes, rather than hand controls.
When I think of ergonomics, I think about the handlebar shape, seat shape, footwells/running boards, rear cowling, brake lever and the overall rider position.
Nice job Cat. Hopefully we can get a look at them up here in AK before the spring snow check deadline.
And weights, why is Cat so scared to publish weights. Either build it light or lie. That’s what the other manufactures do…..
John, thanks for the feedback and I really look forward to more you can tell us about these sleds because unfortunately for most of us, we dont get to ride them until after we buy them.
I have been a die hard 2 stroke guy for years, but I will tell you that 1100 or 1100 turbo and the possibilities with just a little work is amazing.
I am pretty sure that retro 1100 turbo will be mine.
I dont have to convince the wife, the boys I do. They wanted the green one. 🙂
John, referring to the 1100. Has the exhaust note been improved? Does it sound a little more “sporty”? The chassis looks awesome! AC did allot of things right. Things the competitors missed and still haven’t addressed on their chassis… I’ll leave it at that. Cat raced, proved the design, and then brought it to market. We’ve watched this chassis develope over the past 3 seasons with outstanding results. The good people up in TRF should be very proud of another stellar design!
The U.S./Canadian MSRP of the 2011 F6 Sno Pro was $10,300/$12,400.
MSRP for a 2011 F8 Sno Pro was $11,500/$13,700 (compared with $11,800/$13,650 for the 2012 F800 Sno Pro).
By the looks of the new pricing numbers, the F1100 is priced the same as the other 2012 600-class sleds.
No published weights (yet): The reason they aren’t publishing actual weights yet, is because these sleds aren’t exactly “final” production form. They’re still working with material specifications on some significant items (or waiting for previously-changed items to arrive from vendors). These changes can amount to a 5 to 8-lb. (my estimate) change…which is significant when it comes to comparing spec’s.
Thanks John –great report!
Do you you think I’ll miss the telescoping bars on the XF for out west boondocking or do I need to get the 800 High Country with a shorter lug track for trail running? Also, the only thing that stops me from considering a turbo is the possibility of extreme cold starting issues (ie.northern Ontario). Has this been a problem with the Cats as has it been with the Japanese brand?
Exhaust note on 1100: It sounds different, but I wouldn’t call it sporty. It’s so dang quiet that what I notice when riding it, is its overall “hushed” sound.
Allen: I can’t answer those questions for you, because I don’t know how you rank/weigh them yourself. Nor do I know the answer to whether the Turbo has been a hard-starter in extreme cold (Does anyone else here know that answer?).
John I will be coming off a 2011 EXT 800, great trail sled, great saddlebag trip sled, but that 144″ track took more effort than I thought it would (I was coming off an 09 Turbo I stretched to 136″) How would you explain the difference in steering effort between the F 1100 Turbo and the XF 1100 Turbo?
And what is the respective MSRP’s on those two sleds in 50th anniversary trim? (Can’t get on the Cat site :()
I have really come to appreciate the comfort and warmth of my twin spar.. really like the styling of the new sleds but can clearly see in the pictures that they may be cold to ride like a poo or doo..am I right?
I hate a sled that pushes in the corners on soft snow, will Arctic Cat be selling aftermarket ski’s for these like they had to for the twin spars and firecats or is the handling spot on with the stock set up for 2012?
Why did cat just put 2 rear idler wheels in the rear suspension? That puts us at a major dis-advantage if a wheel fails back there.. Will cat offer a 4 wheel kit?
Are the new headlights as bright as the twinspar set up or brighter?
also, I think I know the answer but how does the 4 strokes go in reverse?
Hey John,
For some reason i got blocked from the Arctic Cat fan page on facebook. It doesn’t let me even say anything cause supposibly i was saying inappropriate things. (which i wasn’t) It was probably some of the Polaris or Ski-doo fans that were saying crap that reported me cause i was saying good things about Cat and there jealous. I am blocked from pretty much every AC fan page that i talked on. I was just wondering if there were some way you could help me out please?
Thanks, Chase
John,
Any idea if the race chassis’s are going to go the way of the ProCross?
Thanks
Chris
To the angry 600 2-strokers. I bought a 2011 F-800 this year.(have always had 600s) The 800 motor is the best the industry has to offer. Its so smooth and so predictable yet has the power when you need it. After putting 1500 mile on my sled I thought the ultimate sled would be a f-800 that was 50 pounds lighter. This is exactly what cat did. Great job cat!
Matt:
The big reason many of us want 600 cc two strokes is the difference in cost of the sled and in what it costs to insure it. For me that is about a 2-2500 dollar difference right up front and I dont have 2500 to just throw away. Plus I dont need the extra HP. Minnesota has a any time speed limit of 50 so my speed is only done on certain lakes and a 600 is more than up to the task.
One thing that cat really needs to address is competition for the Polaris Shift. You can still get a 600 two stroke for under 8 grand! Cats 1100 lists for $10,500 so you do the math. Come on Cat. Not all of us sledders are made of money nor care for over priced 4 strokes.
Yeah. I dont like the 4 strokes either. Or the price on the new sleds. But you cant compare a 800 cat to a polaris shift. not even close. The way you describe your riding a f- 500 would be plenty. Or the sno pro 500.
I am comparing cats 1100 (there stated 600 class sled for 2012 so far) to the shift and that is 2600 different. Throw in the 800 and you have to add another 1300 to the price. F-5 is not enough and the 8 is way to expensive to buy and insure for me.
John, I’m sold on the looks.. but any idea if/when we will get official dry weights and if those will come before the end of the spring order program? You say the T1100 is 64lbs lighter than the Z1, but they never published the Z1’s weight(or any twins spar i’ve seen for that matter)! Is it going to be in around the 500lb mark dry? My D8 weighs 470ish. If I could have the reliablitity and power of the Turbo Z1 while only paying a 30 lb penalty I think that would be the ticket, if it’s much more than that, I’ll strongly consider saving myself $2k and signe up for an XF800SP. I got out of my reliable old Apex RTX beacuse it was a damn pig (and didn’t really hide it all that well, despite the Yamaha propaganda machine’s claims). I guess we’ll have to see what the verdict is when the Mag reviews start hitting shelves.
First, the credit… Cat. Thank you. I’m hooked. My ’07 F8 SP has earned is retirement, and will be.
Second, to further drive the point of others above, the 800 HO is the best in the industry for what we do. No, it does not get 1000 miles per “liter”, but if you really want the jaw dropping HP, corner to corner speed; this motor is for you. (My off trail sled is a ’10 XF HO).
Lastly, John, how much did the Rocky “Rox” 500 SP seat play into the design of the ’12s? Looking back on breakdown article of this final build, looks much like a carbon copy.
Again, we all need to relax. Cat is in BUSINESS. BUSINESS. That means, to make money! Do you think they are just going to ignore the 600 market? Come on! Remember the 2003 1/2 F6?
John, I hope you might expand on this later… but is it true that Cat is/ has been working on a 2/4 stroke hy-brid. Pattented? Presurized case…deal’ish? I wanted to ask you about this at the HOF ride.
+2 for looking at a shift as my next sled unless they come out with a price competitive offering.
Maybe next year we will see a DI 600 2 stroke in the 2013 lineup or an early release?
Always next year…..
How would you describe if any the difference in steering effort between the F 1100 Turbo and the XF 1100 Turbo? i want the float rear suspension but the last x fire i owned sucked on hardpack trails .. is this one more like the twin spar?
Congratulations arctic cat and happy 50th !!!..I am so very proud of all you have accomplished this year, and it is now clear who still remains number one ! best wishes and hope to see a direct inject two stroke slur engine soon, I am going with the xf 1100 4 this year no doubt!..super nice job x10..stay well to all at arctic cat !…R.D.
One thing that i hope cat doesnt do is come out with a 600 mid season. that would make alot of people mad, including me. Also, can you get an orange f8 with the cat head on the side like the one at the show or was that one just a promo sled. cause if you can ill take one.
Vince: I didn’t notice any difference in steering effort between the XF and F Turbos, although I admit I never went back-and-forth between them to test that. All of these new sleds have SUPER easy steering. (I would prefer more ski pressure and increased effort.) Like any longer-tracked sled, the XF doesn’t have quite as sharp of cornering. Not a huge difference, but it’s there.
I just posted the retail pricing on the homepage.
Flintstone: They’ve been using two rear idlers on sleds for a bunch of years. There are so many misconceptions about this, including some magazine people who still think that having no outside idlers actually makes the sled tippy in the corners. Umm…NOT.
Anyway, when a wheel (or more likely, a bearing) starts to fail, you can feel it usually as vibration. Whether there’s two or four, you gotta fix asap. Maybe having four wheels increases the chances of failure?
Also, I didn’t ride these sleds at night, so I don’t yet know the answer. People at Arctic Cat tell me they’re better than the Twin Spar, but I don’t know first-hand.
Reverse on 4-stroke activates a solenoid, which shifts in the chaincase.
CHASE: Sorry, I have input/control of Arctic Cat’s facebook page.
Chris H: Yes, ProCross will be the basis of the next race sled.
When on actual weights? I don’t know. If the past is any indication, it will be summertime.
Ryan Teach: I know that Arctic Cat people loved Rocky’s creations, but I don’t believe his Sno Pro/Crossfire influenced the design of the new sleds. The sled design/shape was almost finalized when Rocky brought that sled to Haydays in 2009. I’ll be doing an “Evolution of F4” story this spring/summer. Lots to tell.
I can’t comment on future engines, unless I want to be ArcticOutsider.
I would be BLOWN AWAY SURPRISED if Cat had a mid-year release of anything next winter. The sheer amount of work required to redo the model line for 2012 is truly staggering. The engineers are still working like mad to accomplish that.
Thanks for the info John, I want the hard cornering again and the F Turbo in 50th trim is it, can’t wait to see it in person!
For those who want weights Cat has them advertised for the Euro models, the math to convert kilos into pounds is 2.2, example the Turbo F weighs 249 kilos x 2.2 = 547.8 pounds, pretty damn good for a 180 hp sled, especially in light that my 05 ZR 900 weighed 510 pounds and it didn’t have electric start, reverse, a turbocharger, or a heated seat.
The F8’s are coming in at a feathery 457 lbs.
http://www.arcticcat.se/source.php/1346845/arcticcat_snoskoter_2012.pdf
John: As always, thank you for the updates. I too would be blown away with a mid season, but with people claiming that Cat has jumped ship on a 600 is a bit irrational… time. We all need to give them time.
My comment about Rocky’s 500 was not the design of the snowmobile… BUT of the seat, and only the seat. However, I am away of the Crossfire R/ Crossfire that he mounted a Sno Pro seat to. But again, just the seat.
No one likes an Outsider…
Great info John, Thank you. What about I.R.P.? I love the adj. seat and bars on my 08 F1000lxr. Also, what about rider protection? How cold is the new Pro Cross for the rider? Thanks again. catman
So what about the diamond drive? it was supposed to be the be all, end all of drives. so now everything they told us about diamond drive before was BS?
And yes need a 600, if they do one it will probably be their own motor, remember they claim to have no Suzuki engines in 2014 or something of that nature. they better get rolling on this.
I wonder if we might not see any new motors until Cat starts building their own in a couple years , hmmm. Any thoughts? Hey, pro-cross….(Pro-X), I thought that was Pullaris mame.
What a great line of sleds. As for you complainers I am guessing you are never happy. There is no 600 for good reason. Not enough test time why put an engine out there that will A.fail B.under perform C.make more unhappy customers!!! I think the new cats ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW THESE NEW SLEDS ARE GORGEOUS!!!!2 BIG BIG PROBLEMS!!!!! WHY ARE THEY CUTTING DOWN THE GAS TANK SIZE!!! NOW WE WILL RUN OUT OF GAS AT THE SAME TIME AS THE DOOS!!!!VINCE AND I TRAVELLED 116 MILES AT 50-60 MPH JUST TO MAKE IT WITH OUR 12 GALLON TANKS!!! ALSO I LOVE THE 50TH RETRO MODEL’I HAVE TO HAVE IT BUT I AM NOT DRIVING A FAT 4STROKE WHEN THE 800 WILL ROCK THE FREE WORLD!! BACK IN THE LATE 70’S THESE RETROS WERE ALL 2 STROKES 440’S!!!!
Love the new look….’12 Pro-Cross 50th for me I think, I am just concerned re insurance!! vs displacement.Thought the $US and $CAN would be closer with the strong canuck looney,$1800 difference on this sled!!!Thats a lot of dough!
Mike
Im sure when detroit diesel announced they weren’t making 2 stroke engines anymore im sure lots of people couldn’t belive that either, but maybe its just progress and theres nothing we can do. I look at cat dropping the 2 stroke 600 and just keep telling myself they know what thier doing. Seems I can recall many people dead set on never owning an efi sled, wheres their carb now? I sure dont miss a choke or fouling plugs. The 4 stroke complaint of needing a battery, people are gonna whine about a $100 battery for a $10000 plus sled every few years?, doesnt seem right, but i guess they are the ones with a crank start hanging outa the front of their car “just in case” the batterys dead. Wait, we all rely on a battery to start our cars but it seems absurd that we can’t for our sled? Guess im done ranting, just getting tired of the complaints, guess im hoping that the 1100 n/a engine will be a comparable powerplant with better fuel milage than current 600 two strokes. After all my 06 f6 wont last forever, and so far I love what Im seeing with the new chassis.
Mike: The problem with this is that two companies are still building 600 two strokes that many cat followers of that beloved engine are probably going to go to. I just do not understand cat which should be trying to out sell the competition and gain market share in every engine size that they can. Instead they decide to tell us that this 1100 four stroke is the same as a 600 and at the same cost which is not true when you look that you can buy a Polaris Shift 600 two strok EFI for $7,999.00. $2,600 less than that still over weight battery needing requires Electric start F-1100.
The 50th aniversary sled has sweet curves, but I don’t care for the 70’s graphics. I like lime green, not that pea soup green!
If it was the John Zanon 50th aniversary edition, it would have the yellow leopard seat and a blue windshield to start, then add a graphic package like the Arctic Insider edition, plaid, or maybe some kind of camo?
How about bringing back the purple like the EXT’s in the early 70’s?
John,
How does the rear end on the pro-cross chassis handle the high speed stutters and braking bumps compared to the sno-pro chassis? Is there any tendency to swap and or kick in these situations? Can you elaborate on this a little as this seems to be one of the drawbacks to the current Sno-Pro chassis?
Thank you.
Jeff…regarding Diamond Drive: No. Just because they’ve gone back to chaincase does not mean that everything said about DD is now suddenly untrue, nor do I think that you really believe that. And being polarizing doesn’t help the conversation.
I think DD as a concept had great potential. But once Cat got their hands on it, they quickly learned that it was WAY under-built. And by the time Cat re-engineered it to be dutifully robust, it was no longer lighter, and was WAY more expensive than a traditional chaincase/gears. Plus it was a pain to change gear ratios.
Who knows… maybe it will return in some form in the future? For example, many hardcore riders swore that a ball-joint/single spindle was junk after experiencing it on the original Prowler. Here we are, 20 years later, and the concept has become standard.
Jim R.: Comparing the cost of the Shift 600 to the new F1100 is apples/oranges. One sled is a price-point machine, the other is loaded with premium stuff.
However, I agree with your sentiment, and do believe that Arctic Cat should offer two price-point sleds. One can be a stripped-to-the-bone version like the Shift, the other a machine that’s designed/built entirely as a low-cost sled. Different topic for a different day, though.
MNGuy: The ProCross with the revised Slide-Action skid is more predictable in the stutters and braking bumps. I agree with you that those conditions are where the race version Slide-Action/Sno Pro chassis combo needs work.
Pierre: Turn off the “Caps Lock” on your keyboard and quit shouting at us. LOL.
Sorry for shouting but have you ever walked 5 miles in northern Canada for 3 hours in 20-f in the dark????? I’m sick and tired of worrying about making it to the next stop!!!We have many 100 mile+ distances up here!!! John where can I start a petition for CAT to make a retro 800 on this site?????You don'”t get it,I have to get the retro to match my truck, my 05 retrof6,and my restored1984 eltigre 6000!!!
Thanks John:
Was not really comparing them but just pointing out that there saying that the 1100 is competetively priced is not quite accurate. Even the standard 600 rush is 600 bucks cheaper. Well, it is a Polaris but even so. One other question though. What is this Tri-hub rear axle that they are talking about?
Check out the review the F-1100 got on the Supertrax website. If those guys were impressed, Cat must have got it right. Nice job CAT!!!
Jerry:
Just imagine then that same sled with a 125 hp 600 two stroke coming in 75 lbs lighter. Would be pure heaven!
Jim : I hear u my brother. But, wish in one hand,s*** in the other. See which on fills up faster. At least till next year or till Cat starts building their own motors.
I look at Yamaha for example. Great motors, some of the best in the industry and very high wuality but way too bulky for me. SkiDoo…if you rode one, you rode them all…really sweet sleds but I don’t feel the smooth quality of the Yamaha in the SkiDoo and frankly, most recent Arctic Cats. The Rush simply mised the mark for me. The Polaris quality has come up 2 orders of magnitude, excellent new suspension technology but the motors just don’t impress me. Now the new 2012 Cats hit the market. Chassis is as good or better than anything on the market. The front suspension is better than anything on the market. The 800 HO motor is the most exciting 2 stroke package you can buy…don’t care about the fuel mileage, it’s good enough. The over-all quality of the 2012 Cats are as good as SkiDoo and Polaris…not quite as refined as the Yamaha but really good IMO. The Turbo motor in this new chassis will be simply amazing and these new Cats come stock with as much of “the good stuff’ from the race program as you could expect from any manufacturer. The Yamaha lacks just about all of the ‘good stuff from the race program” and reminds me of my grandfathers Buick in terms of handling and chassis. Sorry boys but for me…this new Arctic Cat offering has pretty mch sealed the deal for me and I I intend to purchase the 800 for my wife…who can handle it by the way and the Turbo 50th for me. I want you to know that I haven’t purchased an Arctic Cat product since the ZR days…SkiDoo and Yamaha for the last 20 some years and I’m excted like a kid over these new Cats! all I ask from Arctic Cat “get it right the first year” because if you don’t…I will never buy another Arctic Cat product again…ever!
I suppose we might as well ask, what are they seeing for top speeds on the f1100 turbo sno pro ? 110,115,120?????
My 03 f7 sno pro would run 115 out of the box, my 08 f10 sno pro would run 108 out of the box, what will a 2012 f1100 turbo sno pro run if i were to buy one?
Good grief! It is really hard to believe some of you guys. AC has come out with what appears to be the chassis that everyone has wanted, and then some. It is powered by 3 rock solid, dependable, proven engines and people still complain. Do you think Roger Skime woke up this morning and said “holy cow, how did we forget a 600”? There are reasons things happen the way they do. Be patient. AC is a very small company in the grand scheme of things. They have very bright people woking there, who try very hard to produce a product that is reliable and will perform as advertised. A far as dry weights, and top speed, you might want to wait until the actual production sleds are built. Everyone needs to relax, have cool beverage, and enjoy what looks to be a really nifty package that will only improve with time. Patience.
My guess on the missing 600 2S is that it has to do with EPA compliance. It would seem that Cat is relying on the four stroke engines to get enough points to continue the three remaining two stroke engines for the time being. I think we are all interested in the reports of the wet sump, direct injected two stroke engines we heard about months ago. It will likely take that kind of technology to get EPA compliant engines, and especially in the largest segment of the market, where they can’t make enough points, or whatever they have to make, to cover off the dirty engines. I’m sure it is just a matter of time before Cat satisfies the demand in the market, or at least, that is my hope.
First of all the 2012 look awsome and the chassis will rock! I have seen first hand what the race chassis can take week after week in the isoc circuit and its way more abuse than any average rider will put it through. Second buy a sled for your riding needs, you don’t buy a m series and ride it out west then go home to minnnesota and jump dithes with it and ***** about the rails bending. Its not designed for that. Third the diamond drive was a great concept and worked fine as long as you change the oil and used the sled the way it was designed. You don’t take a 460 lb sled jump a aproach at 60 and land with most of the fat asses that rode them and expect the gears to take it. Something has to give. I have had a 05 and 06 snopros that i bought brand new, i changed the oil like your suppose to and i haven’t had one problem. That being said i cant wait to snocheck my 2012 1100 turbo high country!!
First the good… Nice looking chassis; I love the Retro graphics; they’ve reduced weight and have what looks to be a well built sled
Next the bad… Arctic Cat has essentially abandoned the entry level market. No one buys fan cooled sleds anymore and the twin spar 500 lxr is not a legitimate sled for a teenager. These younger riders want the new chassis and new look. Polaris got the message with the Shift when they took the current chassis and made a price point sled out of it.
Finally the ugly… This should have been the 11th observation about the new lineup. High prices. It’s a sport people are dropping out of because they can no longer afford it. Forget making it a family sport – I’m now trying to hang on to buy one sled. Cat is now like Yamaha in that they have all kinds of sleds in the 12-15k range and pretty much nothing of interest below 10k. That’s real disappointing.
First the good… Nice looking chassis; I love the Retro graphics; they’ve reduced weight and have what looks to be a well built sled
Next the bad… Arctic Cat has essentially abandoned the entry level market. No one buys fan cooled sleds anymore and the twin spar 500 lxr is not a legitimate sled for a teenager. These younger riders want the new chassis and new look. Polaris got the message with the Shift when they took the current chassis and made a price point sled out of it.
Finally the ugly… This should have been the 11th observation about the new lineup. High prices. It’s a sport people are dropping out of because they can no longer afford it. Forget making it a family sport – I’m now trying to hang on to buy one sled. Cat is now like Yamaha in that they have all kinds of sleds in the 12-15k range and pretty much nothing of interest below 10k. That’s real disappointing.
As for the lack of a 600, I think Cat is actually forward thinking there. Unless they were to come out with a late release 600DI, I think the two stroke projects will be dead at Arctic Cat and the domestic engines built in 2014 will all be 4 strokes. 600 buyers will now move to the 1100 non turbo and if they like it they won’t look back at the two strokes in the future.
After racing a sno-pro 600 and sno-pro 500 in the USCC. Would a guy be satified with the power of the 4 stroke as a trail/ditch/once a year mountain trip sled?
Hello ,
I have a f8 2008 that I have tried to dial in with skis,and adjustments and I am getting frustrated with it , what would I notice with a new 1100 turbo ? How is the ride quality how smooth is the bars? Is the handling more predictable than what I have? A more secure ride ,confident ?
Thanks
Kevin: Look at what 4 strokes has done for Yamaha. 4th place in sales. Sorry but I have ridden every 4 stroke out there but the turbo and I can say that I dont care for them one bit. Cat better have 2 strokes in there future or there future is going to be gobbled up by Polaris and Ski-doo. Something that makes me sick to think about.
Jim R, I dont disagree that there is definitely a place for 2 strokes in the future.
But maybe the reason Yamaha has failed is “they havent gotten it right”. It appears by everything that I have read and heard from people who have ridden the new sleds with 4 strokes that AC has FINALLY bridged the gap between what a 2 stroke and 4 stroke feels like on the trail and made this 1100 feel like a comparable 2 stroke.
That is an impressive accomplishment.
I really wish there was an opportunity for demo rides on these things.
I keep hearing “they handle like a zr”. If this is remotely true they are going to be amazing!!
Someday I’ll have to set my 02 800 cce back to stock so I can feel this “they handle like a ZR” everyone talks about. I bought it used, uncoupled – set up basically for tailwalks and got used to the squirrelyness. If I don’t lean/shift weight it lifts skis on turns like crazy…but I learned to love it.
I agree about cat completely dropping the entry level sled. They’ve said to Polaris – “here it is you can have it.”
Maybe it’s a wise business decision maybe it isn’t.
Cat has essentially said with this engine line up: Your an older rider that wants refinement (4 stroker) your a ditchbanging backpack wearing hardcore(snopro) or you want a hotrod (800 H0)
I’d probably go with a snopro if I didn’t way almost 280….need to ride one but I am worried after two seasons on the 800 I might find it lacking.
Still wanting to know if this 4 Stroker lives in other channels/product lines?
Captain.
I agree with you on what Cat has done but and this is the last time I bring this up on this site is there are to many out there that do not want a 4 stroke because of the added weight, Needing a battery and requiring Electric start and not being able to work on the thing yourself if you do have trouble on the trail. Great for cat to do what they did but short sighted on there part some to. Two strokes are simple and cheap to fix compared to a 4 stroke. Make me a 1100 for around 9 grand and maybe I could live with the shortcomings. Until then, I will be sticking to 600 cc Two Strokes.
Currently the Canadian dollar is worth more than the American dollar. How can the same sled be worth $1800 dollars more in Canada? The 600 issue is just a whiny one anyway because no one really wants one. Mistake not being able to get the retro 50th in a 2 Stroke 800. Sleds look great but I have just bought an 09 CFR 1000 because I can’t afford a new one.
Dan leonard:
No one wants one? Polaris best seller. 600 segment is the biggest selling segment out there. That means a majority wants one. Just an FYI.
Jim R: I have been reading your posts for a few days now, and my goal is certainly not to offend you. However, is it possible that you’re overreacting a little? Let’s remember, these are only snowmobiles. 2 stroke or 4 stroke, life will go on. That said, here are a few things to consider.
For starters, if used as directed (a detail some tend to forget), these 4 stroke motors will almost never foul a plug… and Mike is right… we use batteries in our cars every day with very little trouble.
Most confusing to me though, is that it sounds like you have not ridden a 2012 Cat yet. Every review I can find (even neutral magazines) is glowing about the weight loss, incredible handling, and sheer speed exhibited by the 2012 lineup. Especially the 4 strokes.
Let’s not jump the gun here. All I ask is that you take a 2012 Cat or two for a spin before declaring Arctic Cat a lost company.
Here are a few quotes from Supertrax Magazine to think about:
“Frankly, there hasn’t been a Cat that handles like this one since the days of the old sit-down ZR chassis and AC moves to the top of the handling heap in one fell swoop with this widely spaced double A-arm design.”
“This is the first 4-stroke we’ve ridden that doesn’t feel anything like a 4-stroke! Honest.”
“This is pure magic and finally, after almost ten years of 4-stroke sleds, somebody has finally managed to get it right.”
Of course I have not ridden the 2012 cats Eric. I have ridden every one before that year though sans the turbo and I dont care for them. One last time on the plug fouling. I have seen it first hand and though it was probably driver error it wrecked a weekend of riding for said person and cost him 200 bucks at the dealership. On a two stroke, pull the plugs and put new ones in and your good to go. I am done. Waiting for Cat to respond to my letter. 75 lbs is to much to much to ignore when it comes to a sled and that is what you save going to a 600 two stroke.
Fair enough. I can understand those sentiments. I certainly won’t disagree with you when it comes to the performance, weight, and fun factor of a 600. I hope they come out with something that fits what you’re looking for.
Jim R, Do you own a car? Do you own an ATV? They all are 4 strokes right? They all have batteries right?
Do you do any work on them yourself?
Fact is 4 strokes are not prone to the trailside nagging issues that 2 strokes are.
I dont know, maybe I am being naive, but I do not determine my buying decision based on a “worst case” scenario as in, “I’m going to break down and not know how to fix it”. That doesnt even factor into the equation.
The majority of issues that happen with sleds while on the trail do not even pertain to the motor. Belts, bearings, etc. Those are things most people have issue with at some point or another and I am pretty sure you would be capable of handling a belt change.
New sleds, let alone 4 strokes do not foul plugs at all like the used to so that isnt something I would be concerned about.
If you worry about the battery carry a set of jumper cables. There are more and more sleds out there with batteries these days someone will come by.
On a side note it is a misconception that the 600 class is the highest selling class. Poo and BRP Execs have both been quoted at saying their 800 sleds drove sales this past year. I am not buying that the 600 is the biggest segment at all.
I bet its the biggest selling for used sleds though.
I agree that Cat does need a sled priced right for somebody who dont care about all the premium stuff. Or, the people that used to buy new will just wait a year and then we have leftovers…yippee. So pricing is a tricky issue.
These manufacturers need to work to get people into the sport so the sport can expand. I mean, they need to work together toward that common goal.
Hey Jim R-I got a real good feeling Arctic Cat doesn’t really care what you think about how stupid they are for not having a 600cc! Ever think there are things going on behind the scenes that you don’t know about? Go ahead and jump ship, go to Polaris or Ski-Doo 600. For every one “Jim R” that leaves there will be 10 plus that come back. And then get used to the new snowflap!!! Cause thats what you’ll be seeing.
To all that do not understand what I am saying (lazyey), I do not want to jump ship but Cat is missing the boat. I have been with a group of people that two had to go home because the Z1 they had a fouled plug and when it happens and it costs you 200 in cash to fix it tells me that the grass is not always greener on the 4 stroke side. Wake up. If Polaris and Ski doo produce the two stroke sled (5-8 mph faster according to Supertrax estimate) cat needs to address this. 4 strokes are fine but not to everyone and Polaris and Skidont are going to reap these benefits and that is not fine with me. When it happens to you captain I hope you are going to be just fine with it being there is only a 3 month window for most of us to enjoy this sport. And for what it is worth lazyeye. I bet I am not alone in my feelings and I hope cat gets the point. Polaris shift for under 8 grand list compared to cats 1100 for a buck under 11,600. I am middle class and 2600 is something pretty much everyone thinks about. Wake up Cat elite! 600 is what will put you over the top! I have been taken out of a weekend ride on wheelers because of a battery on a wheeler as well. Not once but twice and have had to get jumped enough to know the extra cost of a battery on a sled is really not worth it for the short season we get. Ever had that happen Captain?
I’m sorry chicken little, I mean Jim R, but no I haven’t. If you had to pay $200 to replace a plug I feel bad for you.
Seriously, I find it interesting that for every possible situation that could go wrong you had one but ok we believe you. This is the internet afteral/ and everything is truthful here.
I agree there probably should be a lower price point to compete with the bare bones rush but AC will be happy to lose your business to gain 10 others. Sorry but its a fact.
Amen Captain!!! I would learn how to replace that plug myself if it costs 200 bucks. My 10 year old lawn mower, which I run all the bad gas in, still has the stock plug. Fires on the 2nd pull! And as far as the 600cc 2 stroke…give em some time. Rome wasn’t built in a day. I do think there is some engine work being done. Remember Suzuki isn’t building the engines after 2014. It takes a lot of work to get it right for the public. From EFI mapping to long term durability. They don’t wanna have the motors fall apart, skidoo/polaris, and pay out in warranty work. Or even lose customers.
Hey John, thanks alot for all your knowledge on the PROCROSS. I am still skeptical as to which cat to purchase next year. I loved the power of my 06 f7 sno pro, but was not a “stand up” riding sled. I want: corner to corner domination, also in the tight twistys, basically DOMINATE on the trails. If we get to a lake(rarely) I wont be in the front OR the back… And If I see a bump, IM GONNA HIT IT! I am leaning towards the F1100 NON turbo as the reliability is there.. but I am exteeemmeelllyyy worried about dropping 13G’s and saying “I should of…” I am a little bit sketchy on the weight of it…
The F8 sno pro, a rocket!, but more $… for a sled that will not last as long as the 4 stroke, and 91octane or higher ….
I mostly ride trails fast and aggresive. And I love hitting drifts..
Please help me decide…
Also F or XF chassis… do I really need a 141″?
much appreciated!
revenue and sales targets must factor in carryovers, they are part of the sales cycle.
We sell X yr1 at 12k and Z yr2 at 10k giving us 11.5 average revenue on this unit.
Be interesting to see what those numbers are.
John,
First and foremost I need to say great job informing us all on these great new products from AC. It amazes me all the people that are comparing the new stuff to Doo and Poo. Who are they? Is there another snowmobile company? I wouldnt know I have ridden The Cat since 1969 and care nothing about these others if the boys from TRF called it quits so would I just like I did in 82. I’m sure that I’m not posting in the correct location for this topic but this one seems to be gettting the most exposure. You’ve done an amazing job here and I’m sure you wonder sometimes what have I gotten myself into? But honestly a Big Thank You for all the hype and info for us guys that Live and Breathe The Cat!
To those of you fighting on here over the 4stroke issue…no matter how you look at it, if something goes wrong-like a plug-you ain’t getting back on the snow as fast as having a 2 stroke. And having a battery, while its nice to have elec start-its not that great when you have a dead battery and can’t ride. I mean, hey that’s why they made baterryLESS EFI – everybody that had a battery efi remembers the pain they can be.
Not saying i’m against 4 stroke, but I’d appreciate if AC gave us a fast 2 stroke DI to choose from like the other manufacturers. Or….they are worried if they do, that’s all people will buy!
83 posts and counting… This has to be some kind of record…
Reg gets it!
I have said this the last 3 years,why doesn’t Arctic Cat allow test/demo rides on new products ? I am due for a new snowmobile next season and would really like to try the F1100 but will not spend $10,000 + to get one and find out I do not like it.And by the looks of all the other’s asking Jon 101 question’s about the new four strokes and chassis I think it would be a very good idea to let people demo the new machines.And one last thing Arctic Cat PLEASE include the 800’s in the Ltd additions also bring back the NIGHTFIRE.
I know there are tons of people disappointed by no 600 2 stroke. This is the reason for the frustration about the 4 strokes because they aren’t ready to make the leap.
For those worried about batteries I think that is kinda ridiculous. Our cars and atvs all have them yet you don’t have a second thought about driving them do you?
Also there have been several people who have seen the new sleds and have commented that the plugs aren’t difficult to get to. It will be very rare to foul a plug. When was the last time this happened in your car or atv? Never happened to me and between those two vehicles I put on 30,000 miles per year.
they did a demo program when the 4 stroke Jaguar came out
I also am interested to learn what happens when an 1100 ends up on it’s top while running. Doesn’t sound like a common occurrence but in the mountains it is a daily event for us to have our sleds on their tops. Rolling a sled in some cases is the easiest way to get out of a stuck. Rolling on accident while doing a maneuver is common (botch a turnout or find crust on a hillclimb and it will come over on you good and fast). Do it with the engine running and what happens? On a Phazer mountain lite it pukes all of its oil out the exhaust and you have to send someone back to camp for oil or you walk home… Hopefully Cat has this figured out as it is their flagship engine on the Mountain sleds.
Captain:
Snowmobiles are completely different than cars. I have replaced the battery on my wheeler 3 times and I have owned it for 6 years. 85 bucks a battery. I have also had batterys go bad in my pickup and cars through out the years. Gets expensive. I put on on averige about 1200 miles a year on my sled and the oil I use (Fowler 2 cycle extreme) would cost me less in that than a yearly oil change. Sorry but 4 strokes are not for everyone.
I think a battery tender would be the simple fix. I think they are about $30.
If, I were to get a F1100. A battery tender would be purchased, as well.
Maintains the battery at a “full charge”. Only charges when the battery needs it. Pretty trick. I know people that have them and they swear by them.
What changes, if any, were made to the exhaust system on the 1100?
Love the new look! I hated the look of the Twin Spar. Reminded me of a MotoSki. Finally Cat made something that looks mean. I loved those “Cat Eyes” headlights on the Firecats. Just wondering, with the Canadian dollar higher than the US dollar, why is the pricing so much higher up here in the Great White North?
That is the great debate Hammerman – I don’t know the answer to that but Cat recently pulled the pricing off their website-probably for that reason. IT now says ‘check with your local dealer for pricing’
yes not all people want 4 strokes in fact alot of people don’t. I bought a nytro this year and I’m already getting rid of it. 4 strokes are just not suited for snowmobiles. Yes they’re mainstream in quads and dirt bikes, but atv’s and dirtbikes aren’t designed to float on top of snow either.
I do have 2 legitimate questions though…
How am I supposed to race a 4 stroke in Uscc and be competitive? Buying a 85 hp 500 or buy a 600 race sled that is problematic and has no oil injection is not an answer I’m looking for.
Is the naturally aspirated 4 stroke even legal in the Uscc? It’s above 1050cc’s which would make it illegal. If they made a 600 like I was waiting for this wouldn’t be an issue… But it is
How is the engine braking on these?
I also love my 2010 SnoPro 500 – but did you say they have made changes for 2012?
Dan,
I’m sure it will be approved by the ISR. It’s only 1056cc, so I wouldn’t think 6 cc’s would even be a concern to them. Plus, with no 600, the F1100 is the only sled they have aside from the 600 race sled. The 600 race sled is not the sled of choice for the Iron Dog which follows ISR rules.
Really great article with very interesting information. You might want to follow up to this topic!?! 2012
Thank You For This Post, was added to my bookmarks.
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Artic cat blows!!
i bought a xf 800 limited sp. i have 330 miles on it. the sled is a monster which i love but i do have to say that everything that surrounds the front of the sled blows ass. both my side bellypans are cracked around rivets and foot holes my paint is chipping and the tolerances on the new sled are horrible. And last week i scuffed a rock in the trail i thought it was nothing and when i got off i realized my lower a arm was bent. and i do take care of my sleds and bring them in for regular check ups.
so note to all the crossfire is a much more durable sled then the new 2012.
efbbbfwonderful publish, I love it. I also buy abeimn a good deal. You really should buy abeimn as well. I will journey to the total USA and buy abeimn there and in other areas to. i will be downtown, you know for what ? just to buy abeimn. I will rest a great deal immediately after buy abeimn and that it generally make me sense so superior. I will be buy abeimn in a pharmacy or yet another spots, whatever the daily life just take me .
Why did them remove the outside boggy wheels in 2011. Will they be back on the 2014 f8 . They had problems on the 2004 when they did this
Keywords: BREAKINGVIEWS DAVOS/
Hey guy I dunno if you could help me out I got 2012 800 FX Cat and its boggy on the bottom end
Loving it – amazing how the best site got even bteetr! I know it was a lot of hard work, but this fan really appreciates it. I’m getting very excited about the upcoming racing season and cheering for the SP Kennel teams. Macgellan – hope you have a fantastic visit.
Loving it – amazing how the best site got even bteetr! I know it was a lot of hard work, but this fan really appreciates it. I’m getting very excited about the upcoming racing season and cheering for the SP Kennel teams. Macgellan – hope you have a fantastic visit.
You are SO RIGHT about the weather chaignng. We just had a woodstove insert put in our fireplace … on a day when it was 80 degrees out and sunny … in October. That is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. When I was growing up here in the north country, it would be a toss up whether or not we’d need our winter coats in the first week of October; now it’s a question of when to pack away our shorts and tshirts. Global climate change is here, now, and like Nero, we fiddle with arguments over whether or not recycling helps while the icecaps metaphorically burn. Gah! Please keep writing both kinds of posts. They connect the personal and the political/global in a way we all need to see because, dammit, this is going to change our day to day lives in ways we can’t even begin to imagine. Ignoring one dimension of our lives in favor of another doesn’t do either one justice.
You are SO RIGHT about the weather chaignng. We just had a woodstove insert put in our fireplace … on a day when it was 80 degrees out and sunny … in October. That is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. When I was growing up here in the north country, it would be a toss up whether or not we’d need our winter coats in the first week of October; now it’s a question of when to pack away our shorts and tshirts. Global climate change is here, now, and like Nero, we fiddle with arguments over whether or not recycling helps while the icecaps metaphorically burn. Gah! Please keep writing both kinds of posts. They connect the personal and the political/global in a way we all need to see because, dammit, this is going to change our day to day lives in ways we can’t even begin to imagine. Ignoring one dimension of our lives in favor of another doesn’t do either one justice.
You are SO RIGHT about the weather chaignng. We just had a woodstove insert put in our fireplace … on a day when it was 80 degrees out and sunny … in October. That is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. When I was growing up here in the north country, it would be a toss up whether or not we’d need our winter coats in the first week of October; now it’s a question of when to pack away our shorts and tshirts. Global climate change is here, now, and like Nero, we fiddle with arguments over whether or not recycling helps while the icecaps metaphorically burn. Gah! Please keep writing both kinds of posts. They connect the personal and the political/global in a way we all need to see because, dammit, this is going to change our day to day lives in ways we can’t even begin to imagine. Ignoring one dimension of our lives in favor of another doesn’t do either one justice.
something to the affect that it was hard come up with sonithemg to write about when you are feeling tugged in so many directions… I was just offering my thought that sometimes the best posts are probably the ones that are easiest. (Trying to give you a break, ya know?) I enjoy the more philosophical too! Your life and the choices you’ve made really are inspiring – so keep up the writing. It matters! P.S. I don’t know how you have the energy to keep up with her. Especially running backwards with a camera! http://pgrjfxlbqxu.com [url=http://xgxihande.com]xgxihande[/url] [link=http://ofkboobvyl.com]ofkboobvyl[/link]
something to the affect that it was hard come up with sonithemg to write about when you are feeling tugged in so many directions… I was just offering my thought that sometimes the best posts are probably the ones that are easiest. (Trying to give you a break, ya know?) I enjoy the more philosophical too! Your life and the choices you’ve made really are inspiring – so keep up the writing. It matters! P.S. I don’t know how you have the energy to keep up with her. Especially running backwards with a camera! http://pgrjfxlbqxu.com [url=http://xgxihande.com]xgxihande[/url] [link=http://ofkboobvyl.com]ofkboobvyl[/link]
something to the affect that it was hard come up with sonithemg to write about when you are feeling tugged in so many directions… I was just offering my thought that sometimes the best posts are probably the ones that are easiest. (Trying to give you a break, ya know?) I enjoy the more philosophical too! Your life and the choices you’ve made really are inspiring – so keep up the writing. It matters! P.S. I don’t know how you have the energy to keep up with her. Especially running backwards with a camera! http://pgrjfxlbqxu.com [url=http://xgxihande.com]xgxihande[/url] [link=http://ofkboobvyl.com]ofkboobvyl[/link]
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