1100 4-Stroke Discussion

Under 45 for 200-300 miles? Yeah that’s gonna happen! Cat better put those miles on before delivery.

I don’t know that the actual speed in MPH is as critical, as folllowing the advice of keeping it mostly under half throttle, with the ocassional short burst of WOT. I could take it out in a fresh 18″ and never go over 45mph, but be well over half throttle the entire time, hence the speed and or throttle position. Hopefully common sense prevails, dont work it real hard! No WOT lake pulls,or extended deep pow/ditch riding.

While all that sounds jim dandy, I have had years where I would not even get the damn thing broke in in the first year. I do not want Electric Start and do not want to deal with maintaining a battery. Have to do that with my wheelers and I find it a pain in the butt and every 3 years costs me an extra $100.00 for a replacement. Cat seriously needs a 600 cc Two stroke to get me to purchase a new sled from them again. Will never buy a four stroke. No benefit for me. Top end the Ski doo and polaris will own this sled. Bet that cat does not use this for racing isoc.

Jim R – What if they did race it? Would you buy it then?

Hey Jim R, I too hate 4 strokes, and would have loved a Procross F600. However I did order a F1100 LXR and will try my best to be optimistic in my reviews. I will not have mine long though, at least I don’t think I will. I too hate batteries in seasonal toys, wish it would interchange with the Seadoo!

Interesting that this article mentions that the Ski-Doo E-TEC 600 got the same mileage. I still feel Cat is barking (or is it meowing?) up the wrong tree with the four-strokes. Ski-Doo has the answer with their direct injection two-strokes. While a four-stroke might work okay for a groomed trail, a two-stroke has the high power-to-weight ratio that us hard core riders want for boondocking. That is why I ordered a new 2012 XF800 Sno Pro.

Don’t be so sure that you will never own a four stroke, sure, if all you want to do is race back and forth across tug hill all day from bar to bar, then yes, maybe a two stroke would be better for you. But after awhile most riders grow up and do what snowmobiling is all about, and that is tour. Go around the Gaspe’ for a week or two, no need to carry any oil, your clothes will smell fresh at the end of each day and your ears will thank you. And oh, none of your “two smokes”, will beat my turbo across any lake. Just my two cents. Enjoy!!

I’ve always have liked the 1100 4 stroker. BUT, have hesitated in buying because, I like to ride ditches and bust drifts, along with somewhat aggressive trail riding. The latter not being an issue at all with the Z1 in my neck of the woods . Now, with the pro cross chassis, I think this motor and chassis would accomplish what I want out of a sled. The durability, cost effectiveness, quiet, smoke-free and a cool a$$ chassis all are attributes I want from a snowmobile… I definitely want to ride one of these bad boys to confirm what I think the F1100/XF1100 are all about….

Same top end in both chassis?Would need more info on that…

If one is 2-3 mph different, then they should be able to tell us the top speed they acheived. We know it will vary with conditions, but they gave us that info too.
What was the top speed for the F1100? What about the XF1100. I might have bought one had that information been available.

“The 2012 model consistently out-accelerates the 2011 version by 5-6 sled lengths.”
“We also ran the Ski-Doo 600 E-Tec in these same comparisons, and the 2012 F1100 constantly out-accelerated it.”

Granted these results are as Cat tested them and not real world results, but I think everyone who purchased a 1100nt will be very happy. I would bet that the low end grunt of this motor closely matches or is better than the non-HO 800’s.

Bob, REAL snowmobiling is riding where there are no trails. That means lakes, rivers, forest roads, ditches, fields, swamps, mountains, etc. That also means powder snow where your machine has to be light to FLOAT over the snow. If all you want to do is ride down a hard-packed groomed trail then put a track kit on your Honda Goldwing. And, yes, boondocking is touring. Just requires a good map and a GPS. And a lightweight machine that will not get stuck.

do we have to have the dealer do all the oil changes to keep our warranty good? I plan on babying my turbo and do everything cat says but my dealer is a long ways from home and was hoping that I could change the oil myself and not void the warranty?

great article John!!! thanks a million… if it wasn’t for AI we wouldn’t know anything about these new sleds we spend all of our HARD earned $$ on.

Since 2004 I’ve owned a T-660 turbo, then a ZR 900, then a Z1 Turbo, then an 800 EXT, and now the F1100 turbo for next year. Now IMO the whole weight thing is over blown, the problem with four strokes is when they do get stuck is the extra weight does make it harder to get unstuck.

I have to believe that there will not be a stock 2S machine that will hi-mark a Pro-Climb 1100 Turbo, a 177hp turbo engine will put a hurt on a gasping, getting weaker by the foot stock 2S engine.

Hey Greg tell us what lightweight machine won’t get stuck, because I have yet to own any machine that I couldn’t get stuck, and I’ve owned some feathers.

EPA compliant two strokes are disposable engines (see ROTAX below), simply because high revving engines need oil.

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To each his own. Fortunately, Cat still makes something for everyone in 2012 (well, maybe not those who wanted a 600cc two-stroke). As for myself, I ordered my new XF Sno Pro with the 800cc two-stroke. I like the low cost, high horsepower, light weight, simplicity, compactness, and ease of maintenance and repair if it becomes necessary.

As for Ski-Doo, even Cat employees and long-time Cat owners were impressed when one of the members of our group purchased a Renegade with the 600 E-TEC a while ago.

I’m glad that Arctic Cat hasn’t framed 2s/4s as an either/or decision.

I like having choices, which we fortunately have when it comes to engines. Of course, most of us want more choices. It’s human nature.

In this era, with roughly 100,000 snowmobiles sold annually coupled with the high costs associated with EPA compliance, I’m not sure how many different engine choices can be made available AND sled companies still making the kind of profit margins they need.

I agree with the sentiment of wanting lighter sleds. I always want lighter, provided it’s still durable and doesn’t cost a small fortune. One element about vintage sleds that I truly love is their light weight and ease of throwing around, whether it’s in the snow, garage or trailer.

With a 2012 800XF on order, it seems obvious to me that the two stroke engine group (guys like Greg Spaulding and Ryan Hayes) really did not have much of their work displayed in the 2012 line-up. I have met both these guys and we can be assured they have not been playing tiddly winks since releasing the 800 HO. I would just bet that after the new chassis gets dialed in, we’ll see a great new 600 that will blow the ETEC away. Cat did not want to take on all the warranty risk in one year—remember the 03 F7?

As for high marking at altitude, don’t forget that a turbo can be installed on a two-stroke as well. Check out the video here on AI or on YouTube of the 2012 M800 HCR with a turbo winning the Mod class of the recent Jackson Hole hillclimb. Two-strokes aren’t dead yet even though the EPA and the tree huggers might wish that.

Hey Greg, check out the pre-season weights that are posted on this site from Cat. Not much difference between a 2 and 4. At least not enough of a noticeable difference when you are having fun digging your sled out of a ditch. Now THAT’S fun!! Still trying to figure out how much fun “ditch-banging” is. Enjoy!!

90lbs. difference (458 versus 548) between the XF800 Sno Pro that I ordered and the XF1100 Turbo Sno Pro. That’s not much? As for getting stuck, I haven’t been stuck yet with my ’09 Crossfire 600. This past winter we rode in some swamps, some CRP, and also on some lakes where the powder was waist deep or more. To quote Kirk Hibbert from an article in SnowGoer magazine a few years ago: “We like to ride where there are no trails”.

Greg Spaulding is my neighbor although I haven’t actually had a chance to meet him yet. I have read though that he has considerable experience with Ski-Doo and racing. After seeing what he did with the 800 in 2010, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did have some tricks up his sleeve for two-strokes. Some rumors floating around are a 600cc direct injection two-stroke with a sealed crankcase. One would change the oil yearly like on a four-stroke. The only oil that would be injected would be in the combustion chamber to lubricate the piston rings. Sounds high tech to me!

Sorry Bob but 90 lbs is a hell of weight difference. Almost having another half of me on the sled. That is to much weight in my eyes. Four strokes do not belong in sleds is my motto. A machine you can ride 3 months a year in sub zero conditions should not have to rely on a battery or electric start to get you out of trouble.

Yeah, 90 pounds is a lot of weight, but in most riding situations you wont even notice the weight if it is distributed well. They are all heavy when they get stuck. You guys seem to forget how heavy the F Series is/was. These sleds are still lighter than those machines with considerable more power.
The weight of this new turbo is less than my 600 zrt was. That thing was a blast to ride, but yet, when stuck it totally sucked, but my buddies’ firecats are a pain in the ass when they are stuck as well and they are like 100 pounds lighter.

The 2 stroke 4 stroke pro’s and con’s will never go away. They both have them and they are both better suited for some people, and not for others. The fact that four strokes are selling well cannot be ignored by both the manufacturers and riders in general. The bottom line is we ALL profit from the technology that is being pushed each year on both types of sleds. For example, go to Canada where 4 strokes rule, (read, high mileage, deep snow and extreme cold temperatures), the four strokes perform great, or you wouldn’t see so many of them there. The bottom line is, it’s your money, you live in the greatest contry on the face of the planet, spend it as you wish and just enjoy yourself!!

Bob: Thanks for that post. Well said.

We’re lucky it isn’t and either/or situation. We have a choice! How great is that?!?

Postings thus far have dealt only with the weight disadvantage of four-strokes. Other disadvantages are high cost. A four-stroke turbo will run about $2,000 more than the 800cc two-stroke depending on the chassis ordered. Another disadvantage is difficulty in maintenance and repair. Anyone look under the hood of a four-stroke turbo when you were at the Sneak Peek shows? What a nightmare! Try replacing a leaking coolant line or chafed wire in that mess. And don’t forget valve adjustment and timing chain headaches. A two-stroke is simple and compact. Those of us who do our own work can have a two-stroke engine out of the chassis and completely torn down in a matter of hours. Starting in cold weather could also be a disadvantage if one doesn’t have a “current bush” handy to plug the coolant heater into. Yes, a two-stroke is a little stiff at -34 degrees but they WILL start. And then don’t forget you have to change the oil and filter each year on a four-stroke. Fogging a two-stroke engine prior to storage seems much easier.

Bob, don’t forget that the top three finishers in the recent Cain’s Quest Extreme Endurance Event (aka as a race) were Ski-Doo with E-TEC two-stroke engines. Fourth place team was on Cat M800 HCR’s. Cain’s Quest is more about man and machine rather than speed.

Here are the gas mileage figures right out of the 2012 Ski-Doo literature. 1200 four-stroke: 18mpg. 600 E-TEC two-stroke: 21mpg. 800 E-TEC two-stroke: 19mpg. So much for the argument that four-strokes get better mileage………………….

Hey Greg I’m obviously bi-sledual as noted by what I’ve rode and owned the past several seasons and they all have strong points and some not so strong points, but I must point out that Bombi propaganda you’re quoting is based on riding a sled on hard, hard, hard pack at 25-30 mph.

“And oh, none of your “two smokes”, will beat my turbo across any lake.”
I am going to go out on a limb and assume you are talking about 2 stroke snowmobiles vs. 4 stroke turbocharged snowmobiles, please correct me if I am wrong. Besides that, I have a few questions.
1. Are the lakes (as in, “any lake”) limited to the continental United States, North America or the entire world?
2. Will or has the competition be/been held on all lakes in the designated geographic area or just one lake best representing the designated area?
3. Location pending, is the lake required to be frozen?
4.When you say “across any lake” I interpret that to mean that the competition will traverse the width of said lake as opposed to traveling the length. That being said, using Lake Superior as an example, is 160 miles at it’s widest point. Fuel consuption may be a factor. Therefore, are fuel stops and/or additional fuel tanks allowed?
More questions may follow after I receive further clarification on above topics. Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response.

LMAO @ Brian!!!
Greg, you can have your two stroke and those of us who want a four stroke will have that.

The ease of getting extra power for little money out of the turbo 4 stroke is unreal. I have done my time on 2 strokes. Tired of the $40 per gallon oil, the smell in my clothes at the end of the day and just the overal smoke in general. Yeah, it has gotten considerably better, but its still noticeable.
I cant wait for the quiet, smooth broad power and no smoke.

Captain: As long as they keep both available Cat will continue to grow. They give up on the two stroke and they will be just like Yamaha. Lucky to sell 3000 sleds a year which I have heard is what they sold two years ago. I only pay $25 a gallon for my oil and go through less than two gallons a year so it is cheaper for me to run a two stroke and I happen to love the smell of two stroke oil. Four strokes still smell btw.

Agree with Jim R – there is nothing better than the smell of a 2 stroke engine. I got an idea for AC. If this guy claims the engine will go 100,000 miles then why not offer just the new chassis for a good price so that you can just swap in the motor instead of trading for a whole sled. I mean lets be real, if the motor can potentially last 100,000 miles, the chassis will NEVER EVER last that long.

My wife rides a two stroke, and I feel more manly because of it!

I started a 2S vs 4S topic in the general sled forum to help while away the time till the leaves start turning.

http://forum.arcticinsider.com/index.php?/topic/825-2-stroke-vs-4-stroke/

I love the IDEA of a 100,000-mile sled/engine. But…

Say I get to average 2,500 miles a year on such a sled. After consulting my trusty TI-30 calculator, I reckon that’s 40 years of riding, give or take.

Yep, not going to happen for me.

I can’t imagine that 10, 20 or 30 years from now, that I’ll prefer riding a 10-, 20-, or 30-year old sled ALL winter long.

Your mileage may vary.

With a direct injection two-stroke you CAN have the best of both worlds. Good gas mileage. Clean burning. Light weight. Simplicity. Compactness. Low cost. Ease of maintenance. Easy to repair.

One must compare apples to apples not apples to oranges. As in direct injection two-strokes to four-strokes. And any new technology that may come up in the future with two-strokes.

Detroit Diesels, which are used a lot in trucks and construction machinery, are two-stroke.

Guess I gotta throw in my 2 cents here, and being an “oldtimer”,, I love the feel of a well-tuned 2 stroke pulling hard at WOT while coming out of a sweeping corner, but with that comes the nagging quiet voice in the back of your head saying “is the motor gonna stay together if I keep this thing clamped?” If you run a bigger CC 2s motor, common sense maintenance says at 6000 miles put in pistons and rings as not to pinch a ring land or have a skirt break off and totally frag a motor. I don’t wanna do that anymore!!,, I am getting old and just wanna “gas and go”. I really believe the 4s packages Cat is offering is in the right direction. Addressing the 4s longevity question about timing chains- how many miles do these hi-revving “tuner cars” get on a motor? Well into the 100k realm without chain issues, so why would the 1100 motor not get 40k easily if oil and coolant is maintained regularly? This old guy doesn’t do WOT for miles anymore, he’s too old for that. lol.

I think my post after Greg H’s was removed. Im pretty sure I didnt screw it up while posting. LOL

I do agree there is definitely a place for 2 strokes in the future and it will be interesting to see where AC is headed. They have made a strong case for 4 strokes, but if you look at it, it is really only 1 engine, but 2 variations, so I think it is premature to say they are putting all their eggs in the 4stroke basket.

I would be interested in seeing a smaller 4 stroke with a turbo because I think there could be some weight savings by going smaller and then improved performance over the current 1100 due to a turbo.

Having to add a turbo to make it put out competetive HP is not what I want to here. Extra weight, Extra cost and still have not heard one person state on how you get to the oil filter on there turbo as it is now. Two strokes are nice cause you can take a 600 cc sled and get about 130 hp right out of the gate. Takes a four stroke almost twice the cc’s to get that. But they both have there place so?

Almost 700#’s wet…with the trail performance of a 500cc 2 stroke….LOL…

With a direct injection two-stroke, one can have ALL the advantages of a four-stroke AND a conventional “old school” two-stroke without the disadvantages of either. Sounds like a win-win situation to me!

Greg, I think “All” advantages is a bit of a stretch. I could agree with the no/little smoke, but you will not have the linear torque power that a 4 stroke builds OR the longevity either. 4 strokes are not an sensitive to poor fuel either. Look at the problems that some 800 HO owners are having as an example. No 2 stroke lasts like a 4 stroke. I admit that 4 strokes are more complicated to fix when something does happen, but the 2 strokes do not have the durability or lifespan of a 4 stroke.

Captain. To be fair you need to remember that your beloved 4 stroke requires a battery. Just bought one for a wheeler we are selling and even at cost the battery was over $80 bucks. They last on averige 2 years taking care of them. You are also stuck with added weight in electric start. Some 800 Ho’s are having btw. Not all. Issue will be addressed. 2 strokes may not last 40,000 miles but I never keep a sled past 6,000 miles anyway and that takes me 5 years to get that many miles so to alot of us, 4 strokes offer no advantage what so ever. I did a top end to my 02 zl 600 and it cost me a day of fun and beer and $400 bucks. About the cost of adjusting the valves at 2,000 miles cat recommends. Advantage TWO STROKE!

Who cares if four-strokes last longer? Two-strokes are very easy and very inexpensive to overhaul. Even your average Joe Blow Snowmobiler can overhaul a two-stroke. Besides, for the extra $2,000 that a four-stroke is going to cost, one could buy parts to overhaul a two-stroke twice. By the time it gets 20,000 miles on it and needs a third overhaul, you will be ready to upgrade to the newest chassis that Roger Skime has come with (yeah, he will still be working at Cat when he is 80).

I dont necessarily care that it will go 20,000 miles, but when you eek one in the middle of nowhere because of crappy gas at 800 miles it doesnt really matter how cheap it is to fix. Happened to me on a couple of occasions.
4 strokes are much more dependable. Look at the Etec, they cant make them stick together for over 6000 miles.
The outboards have big time powerhead issues, which is the sole reason I didnt get a new Etec when I bought my new boat last year.
I decided on a Big beautiful black Suzuki (150 hp) and that thing is unreal. I wont go back to 2 strokes regardless, but I do realize there is a place for them so hopefully they keep a few around with new tech.

The outboard issues were when OMC had the company. The new Etecs are so far advanced from anything out there today that they can run without oil for up to 5 hours and warranty is outstanding on them. Much lighter than the four strokes as well. Most of the supposed issues of the etec sleds is internet rumor btw there captain. I will never own a ski doo because I am a cat person through and through but dont fool yourself and think that they are not reliable. They are almost bulletproof.

jim r, incorrect! The ETecs are having serious powerhead issues. Specifically the larger ones. Yes they are advanced, but they have been having considerable problems with them.
It is not internet rumor BTW. The dealer I bought my boat from, sells, services Evinrude, Johnson (Suzuki), Mercury, Volvo, Suzuki. When I picked up my boat there were two others similar to mine in there and I commented “a couple more headed out today?” The service man said “nope, those damn Etecs coming back with another failure”.
From what I have seen the small ones have been bulletproof, but you get one of the triple digit models and they are suspect.

Captain. My dealer sells Evenrude and they have yet to have an Etec engine in for warranty work. Zero problems. Tells me that what you are saying is internet rumors. Big dealer btw.

jim r, are you calling me a liar? I saw them at the dealer personally. I talked to the mechanic personally. One of the boats I looked at before I ended up buying the one I did had a 250 HO ETec on it that was rebuilt with a 1 year warranty on repairs.

Its not internet rumor. Its fact, I saw it with my own eyes. To be clear, I was going to put an Etec on my boat until I started hearing some of the problems (rebuilt 250 HO that was 1 year old), then when I picked up my boat it cemented it after seeing the ones in for repair. Im not saying they all have problems because that is obviously not true, but there are problems and big problems that appear to be isolated to the big motors.

Are you calling me one Captain? I know how good they are. Brother in law has a 175 hp and has been flawless for three years. They are great motors that weigh 100 lbs less than the four strokes, get better economy and are quicker out of the hole compared to the same size fours and you dont have to take it in for regular service. No belts to replace, no valves to adjust. Bullet Proof! Also saying that one motor was rebuilt one year in. Warranty is four several years and any motor can go down. Depends on who owns it.

Ok Jim, so you provided one example of a good one. I provided 3 of bad ones. Bulletproof is a bit of a stretch to put it lightly.

If problems crop up within the first year that is a bad sign. I don’t care what we are talking about sleds whatever but if you have serious motor troubles within the first year that is bad.

I guess I would rather adjust my valves after 3 years than a powerless after one

I just got back from some early morning fishing and I have talked to a couple more that have the motors and both of them LOVE THEM! They called them Bullet Proof as well. To each there own but if I were buying, that would be my only option as I dont want to change oil on something I may only use 5-6 times a summer. Same in Winter. 1000 miles is a pretty good year for me. Cost me more to own a 4 stroke and I never keep a sled longer than 5000 miles anyway so not concerned if the motor is going to last for 40,000 plus. To much expense added to it with oil changes and Battery upkeep and replacement. I just purchased a battery for a wheeler we were selling and it cost me $80 plus and that was at cost. Replaced it after 2.5 seasons none the less and that also is with a battery tender. No thanks to batteries needed on a snowmobile.

Jim, its internet rumor that the etecs are 100 pounds lighter. It’s 40 pounds lighter than my Suzuki and that’s with 8 quarts of oil in it so I essence there is negligible difference.
Oops, looks light weight isn’t an advantage.

I have to doubt you on that one. Maybe if you weigh the Battery and fuel with the Etech they are within 40 lbs of each other.

No need to doubt. I will provide a link. I am not a liar. No reason to.

suzuki: http://suzukimarine.com/df175-150/features/
etec: http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/Engines/ETEC_V6/ETEC_175_V6

Its actually 52# difference when looking at 25″ shaft for both. The first time I looked I was comparing the 20 to the 25, my bad.

It actually pays to research things otherwise you spread falsehoods. Like I said, i did extensive research on these things before buying mine.

I just looked up some stats on the Suzuki 175 compared to the Evenrude 175 and when you throw in the 8.7 quarts a 6lbs a quart you come up with almost 120 lbs in weight advantage for the Evenrude. Throw in the two oil changes you need a year and well, yours costs a hell of alot more as well. Sorry. We just disagree but I can tell you that not only are the Etecs reliable, they are the best buy on the water today.

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Engines/ETEC_V6

Up to $1,850 in savings over the first three years looks pretty good as well.

Jim you are hilarious. Aside from the fact that a gallon of oil weighs 7.5# not a quart, the Suzuki weights include the oil.
I would Luke to see where they get their savings figures from. It cost me $80 to change all fluids each year. Undoubtedly the etec will use oil and if used the same amount I’m better the cost is the same. I have no, zip, zero maintenance for 3 years. Then it may need a valve adjustment and thats $200. Brp has some fuzzy math and people like you are buying it but the educated consumer knows better.

My weight was way off. Sorry bout that. There figures come from having a dealer do the work. Most people dont change there own oil so $100-$200 for having to load your boat on a trailer take it to the dealer and back is pretty close I suspect. Every 6 months where you can boat year round. You have more to worry about than the two stroke gang. Can you run your engine for up to 5 hours without any oil or when it is over heating? Betting not. Another plus for the Etec. Maybe you dont understand but I HATE FOUR STROKES in recreational vehicles besides 4 wheelers. I would rather add oil and ride than have to take the time to adjust valves and change oil. To many fish missed when the boat is at the dealer for required maintanence. To each there own.

Jim, are you even remotely serious with these questions? Changing oil in my motor at least, cant comment on the other 4 strokes is no harder than a car. So if they can change it there they certainly can change it themself.

You dont need to change the oil every 6 months either, again that is another BRP fallacy that they want folks to believe. Its once per year or 100 hours. For people that use their boats extensively like guides, I could see them doing that more than once in a year, but I had mine out literally every weekend from Easter last year (March 2) to the end of August and I put on 175 hrs. I had to change my oil twice. Once was break in oil and the other was when I put it into storage.

Adding oil to a 4 stroke when using it? Are you kidding me? From the day I fill it to the day I change it the level NEVER drops and I check it religiously. I do everything from trolling for 5 hrs in a day to pulling skiers and tubers all day. Never misses a beat. Try trolling with an Etec or an Optimax like that and you will foul plugs. Fact, Mercury says their high HP 2 stroke outboards are “meant to go fast, not to troll.” If you want to troll, bring spare plugs. Thats a nice feature.
Good lord, you have really bought into the BRP rhetoric. Again, where is all this maintenance they are speaking of? A valve adjustment? Not suggested until after 3 years, even at that rate, do it in the offseason. Big deal, no time lost.
BTW I just talked to a guy here locally with a 175 Etec and he has replaced his injectors 7 times. All under warranty, but that cost him time on the water. Faulty ignition system to blame. I cant confirm, but from what he told me it wasnt a sporatic issue, though since I cannot confirm this I wouldnt say that it is. Still sucks for him.

I can respect the fact you don’t want a 4 stroke, but at least get facts straight about this stuff before listing all these advantages for 2 strokes. Dont buy what BRP is telling you, its not even remotely accurate.
I would LOVE to see how they arrive at their “$1800” maintenance savings. Of course, they will never say how it was calculated, just make up figures and call it good.
Too many people believe what they read and it looks like you are just carrying the banner.

Since I have access to an Etec I will take BRP at there word there Captain. You go ahead and tell it how you see it and I will tell it like it is.

You tell it like it is huh. So you have a dealer give you wrong information about weight of oil. Do you research anything for yourself and make your own informed decisions? Access to one is far from owning one.
Since you can tell me like it is can you tell me how you can save $1800 over three years by buying a etec? Now I want specifics everything you’ve said so far I’ve proved inaccurate.

I can hardly believe how some people act when it comes to 4-strokes. Does their common sense go out the window? Pretty much everyone owns vehicle and guess what, it’s a 4-stroke How often do you work on its engine or adjust the valves?. ATV’s run 4-stroke engines and I don’t hear people complaining about that. Have problems with batteries? Then get a Optimate charger, plug it in and forget about it until you are ready to ride. It does everything automatically. Yamaha doesn’t require a valve adjustment until 25,000 miles!

I’ve been riding 4-stroke Yamaha’s since late ’05 and aside from the increase in weight, there are no downsides. This new 1100 looks to be as heavy as an ’08 RTX Nytro at 513 lbs. Hopefully the Cat will hide its weight and ride and handle better. If the new 1100 has a better handling chassis compared to the Nytro, (which should be a no brainer) then it will be the best offering for a ditch banger 4-stroke.

Some of the arguments against 4-strokes are downright ridiculous.

Akrider: The weight distribution of the new F1100 is excellent, and an improvement compared to the Nytro’s I’ve ridden. Perhaps even more important though, the front end (suspension action, lack of bump-steer) on the 1100 is what separates it from the Nytro.

Not trying to talk smack on the Nytro. I think its problem is funky front end geometry, which is compounded by added weight bias. Especially with the short track version. It’s too bad, because the motor in that baby is awesome, as is the typical Yamaha quality.

John,
I completely argree with you. I’ve been XC racing my Nytro since ’08 and its unstable nature at high speed is something I’ve fought and tried to tune out for the past 4 seasons. This year I got to ride both a Sno-Pro 600 and a Pro-R 600 after a race and I was blown away by how stable they were at high speed. The ride and handling of those two sleds were drastically better than my Nytro.

With an open mind I did more testing, machined down upper ball joints (supposely another fix) and dicovered that bump steer was causing my Nytro to be unstable. Funny how it takes riding something else to clear your head and realize how much I’d been compensating for the front end. The Nytro’s engine is really good, it is powerful, reliable, runs on 87 octane and has caused me no major problems. But the sled just doesn’t go through the bumps anywhere as good as the competition.

I’m really curious about the F1100. I’m under the impression that powerwise, it is similar to the Vector 120 motor? There’s nothing wrong with that if the chassis, ride and handling are comperable to the Pro-R or even the Sno-Pro if you were to install high end shocks on the F1100.

Ok there captain. If a person has a dealer perform every oil change and tune up and valve adjustment over three years I bet it comes Damn close to the $1,800.00 they are claiming. Not everyone is as good as you on maintanence. $400.00 a year on two oil changes alone so there is $1,200.00 of it right there.

jim r, so you can honestly tell me that you cannot unscrew a bolt, loosen a filter and then reverse process. Fill with oil and replace filter? Really? There are seriously people out there that cannot do this? They shouldnt own motorized vehicles then.

Now if they choose to have a dealer do it thats another thing, but CAN’T do it is ridiculous.

One valve adjustment may be required after 3 years. At that its only $200, ive already checked around and all dealers are the same.
I dont know anyone that would need to change their oil twice in one year. The first year, yes, because of breakin. Otherwise its 150 hrs or once a year.

Captain. I know pleanty of people who put on 250 hours a year on there boats and I can also state that the recommended oil changes are every 100 hours. Does not matter what I can or cannot do. Thing is you should not have to with an outboard motor nor a snowmobile. I guess that most people I know are to busy to have to deal with stuff like oil changes. I quit doing my own oil changes on my vehicles because by the time I add up the cost I cant do it as cheap as my dealer and I sure as hell am not going to do it to my boat motor. Valve adjustments on most boats are every 300 hours I have been told as well.

250 hrs on their boat or 250 hrs on their motor? I would be VERY surprised if they put on 250 hrs on their outboard in a year even if they are a guide. I used mine a ton last year and only ended up with 75 hrs on the motor. A buddy of mine just bought a used boat, with a yamaha 4 stroke on it that was used by a walleye guide. It was 5 years old and the motor had 376 hrs on it. This is a guide who does it for a living literally every day.

You need to get out of the stone ages. 4 Strokes definitely should be on boats and snowmobiles. Not saying that 2 strokes shouldnt be, but 4 strokes in these applications have come a long way.
Durability is unmatched, reliability is unmatched, fuel economy is unmatched, torque is unmatched.
The only thing you can quibble about is an oil change. Which, my $80 cost I was included lower unit lube which is $20 as well. You have to do that no matter what motor you run.
BTW I was on Mille Lacs lake yesterday fishing and there was a guy using his kicker, but moving at a good clip. I asked him what he was fishing for and he said “Im not fishing, my motor died”. It was an ETec. No idea what was wrong with it, but his kicker was a 4 stroke. Wish I would have had my camera. I felt bad for the guy because he had clients in the boat and a long ride back, probably 8 miles or so. I offered to two him, but he declined.

It Amazes me Captain how you find all these dead Etec’s. Every single day you find one it seems. Must be you are a magnet to the Etecs that have problems I suppose. Your $80.00 cost of an Oil change is crazy. My Ram with the 7 quart taking Hemi (Why in the hell does your boat need 8 quarts is anther days question) costs me about $30.00 and change at my dealer every 3000 miles. Fue economy the Etech does better. You can troll with an Etech at a snails pace and use next to nothing in fuel and oil and less use of the electric trolling motor. Way less. The Etech does not need the lower end changed for 3 years btw. Three YEARS! Lets see you do that with your Suzuki.

Another thing Captain. At 10 hours a week running your boat which I run it about 15 hours a week adds up to 260 hours in half a year. Take a warmer climate down south and you could be doing over 5 oil changes a year on that four stroke. That is alot of clams even if you do it yourself. Way more than adding two stroke oil.

Is this Arctic Outboarder?

Synthetic oils can extend oil the oil change interval if the motor is being used in the perimeters to not require normal oil changes.

Thing is, I find it difficult to understand how on one hand a guy can’t be bothered with the time and expense of changing his oil but won’t batt an eye about replacing his pistons and rings at anywhere between 3000 and 5000 miles on a sled. Aside from racers, I don’t know anyone who actually does a top end as a preventative measure. They just continue to ride the sled until it burns down or lets go across the lake and then ruin everyone’s ride because they need to get towed back. They then spend their precious down time complaining online about their dealer or manufacturer who wouldn’t warranty their sled (even though it is out of warranty) and then say how they are jumping ship to brand X.

Jim,

You are not using synthetic oil I am sure. Yes, it does indeed take 8 quarts or two gallons of oil. Would you like to ask your dealer how many quarts are in a gallon? Seems you need to ask them for your other specifics.
Your lower unit should be changed EVERY year. We have a freeze/thaw climate here and if you get moisture in there and let that freeze you are going to have major issues. I dont care what kind of motor you have, that lower unit better be changed yearly. That is just plain stupid to not do it.
I find these things because I am all over the place. Big surprise that I would go to a dealer who sells a product and see one there being serviced. The other one was coincidence.
I am good friends with one of the sales guys so I go in there to shoot the **** with him quite a bit and check things out.
Hey, have the “person who you have access to that owns an Etec” what he gets for MPG.
BTW, I dont use any oil when I fish. LOL

Captain. I am using fowler 2 cycle extreme which is 24.99 a gallon which is 4 quarts since you needed to point that out in my sleds. Last year in oil total it cost me less than $50.00. 150-180 miles a quart. Put on about 1,150 miles and had about a quart left in the second gallon. Cost for Cats 4 stroke oil for there sleds is over $50.00 and I would have had to change it twice so my 2 stroke was half the cost at least. I dont do top ends. I trade at the 5-6000 mile mark which is about every 4-5 years. Why does the Zuki need 8 quarts? BRP clearly states that you do not need to change that on there outboards. What part of that did you not get? But I digress. Again, why do you need 8 quarts in an outboard motor. That is way extreme. Could it be that once it starts to burn oil it will burn it rather quickly? Just curious.

why does your ram need 7? My GMC only needs 6. What question or point are you trying to prove there? So it takes 8 quarts, big deal, thats what it takes. It never burns a drop of oil and I have clearly stated that on several occassions.
Do some searching you wont find even internet rumors about engine problems with suzukis, but you will find them with etecs.
OK, so you live by the bible on BRP saying that you dont “need” to change the lower unit, but you insist that oil changes have to be done 3 or 4 times per year and valve adjustments and tune ups have to be done by year 3 on 4 strokes? Cant have it both ways fella. You are buying into the BRP propaganda.

Oil changes are the only maintenance items in 3 years at least for my motor, cant speak for others because I do not own them.
Regardless of what BRP says, if I owned an Etec, which I almost did, I would change that lower unit every year, no question. Its not because the drive itself needs to have it changed, its the risk of water intrusion contaminating it. That can happen regardless of what color the motor is. Good safety net, but I suppose you cant pull two drain plugs to do that either.
Everything you talk about to try and justify cost savings for the etec is in doubles. You wouldnt have to change the oil in the cat 4 stroke twice in one season with the mileage you put on. Good Lord.
I will help clarify my earlier point about oil when I said “you are not running synthetic oil” I was referring to your truck, not your sled. So comparing your $30 oil change of your truck, to $80 for oil, filter and lower unit lube was a terrible comparison.
The 4 stroke oil itself is $25 per gallon (50 total for math challenged), filter $15 and lower unit lube $15. I also bought a pack of gum (because I like chewing it while I watch the oil drain) and one of those can coozies to keep my drinks cold. I think I might have even stolen the pen when I left because it could write upside down.

Well Captain, maybe you should spend less time on here defending the four stroke and more time on the water so you can get more oil changes in since you like spending money on it. Good for you.

I dont run synthetic in my hemi cause it is not recommended as still going to be a 3000 mile oil change. If it cost me $80.00 for anything oil change related, I would not have it very long.

Funny. Maybe you should actually do some research instead of being a brp sheep. None of the “info” you have provided is accurate. Are you going to ask your etec owner what kind of mpg they get? I’m curious to know. I know what I get and comparing my numbers to those of optimax I’m very pleased.

It would cost you less money per season to run a F1100 than your ZL 600 simply in gas MPG. Like Captain said, you don’t ride enough miles to change the oil twice per season. Plus, you wouldn’t have had to spend $400 on a top end rebuild.

Captain. Everything I gave you came from the BRP website on there recomendations. Did not realize that boats got MPG. Always thought it was gallons per hour since I have never seen a boat with an odometer. Have you?

Akrider. My old 02 600 efi gets 14-15 mpg. Same as my 09 600. Pretty much the same mileage that they are seeing with the One Ton 1100 four stroke. $400 on a top end? I trade well before I would ever have to think about that. Who wants to keep the same sled for 10,000 miles anyway? I have never had a sled go down since my 1979 Pantera blew a fan belt and melted a piston.

Both of you. I will never own a four stroke sled nor a four stroke outboard. I will switch from cat to whomever if they ever quit using two strokes. I hate the added weight and not having that beautiful two stroke smell in the air.

Yes, I have a odometer on my GPS. I stop and start it whenever I am using my big motor. Most guys who know what they are doing already know this. They dont just pull marketing crap off of some website.

Jim, I could really care less if you ever own a four stroke and TRUST ME I am not trying to convince you to do so. I am just trying to point out that your feeble attempt to provide “marketing” data about benefits of the two stroke are completely inaccurate. AGAIN, do your own research, dont read what you see on one brand’s particular website. What do you think they are going to say? So what we have learned from all your posts is that you 1) get all your 4 stroke information off of BRP’s website 2) ask dealers to do measurement calculations for you 3) somehow correlate your ram truck and its conventional oil changes to synthetic oil changes.
I know you probably dont look anything up yourself because you have no intentions in buying one, but by providing the information you have been and all of their inaccuracies you look foolish.
I am going fishing for a week straight now, I will be sure to let you know how many oil changes I have and what my oil consumption is like. LOL

This is the required maintanence that BRP recommends there Captain. Read it and WEEP! I love the part where you read that there is no required gearcase changes for 3 years and you will say that is a lie even though this comes directly off there web site. Good luck fishing.

BTW, I dont use a GPS for fishing. I go where the fish are.

Love maintenance? The hassle? The waiting? The expense? Try another outboard. Evinrude® E-TEC® puts a big list of routine maintenance items where they belong. In the history books. It’s pretty simple. Where would you rather be? In for service? Or out on the water?

No Maintenance for 3 Years / 300 HoursNo inspections or adjustments, no changing gearcase lube, no spring tune-ups. For a full three years, then every three years after that. Up to an extra $1,850 in your pocket.Fewer parts195 fewer than a four-stroke. No valves, belts, camshafts or pulleys to adjust or replace. No telling how much that could cost.No oil changesA four-stroke gets one every six months or 100 hours – 60 if you’re doing heavy trolling. And there’s no going to the $20 quick-lube, so you’re spending $100-$200 a shot, twice or more a year. That’s money that stays in your pocket if you own an Evinrude E-TEC.3-year, 300-hour spark plugsAdvanced iridium plugs – featuring a longer, more efficient spark. More hours between plugs and service.Auto StorageThe engine fogs itself automatically in minutes, with no trip to the dealer. So easy, you can do it any time. In the North, you’ll be able to go fishing if you get a winter warm spell. And in warmer coastal regions, you have no worries about salt air and corrosion. Bottom line? More time on the water. We won’t even try putting a price tag on that.

My father still has a 1967 Johnson 60 horse V-4. Never had any top end rebuilds on it and it still will pull up three water ski’rs without hesitation. That motor is over 40 years old and still runs like brand new. Lets see some new 4 stroke do that with the amount of maintanence that old two stroker has done. No way in Hell does it make it.

Jim you are comprehending what you want to from my posts. I NEVER said gear case was required. Nor did I dispute that brp or any other brand doesn’t require it yearly. It’s not required on mine either. I do it and everyone should do it for the reasons I stated quite clearly before.
So, what happens at 300 hrs on the etec? By your accounts thats a couple weekends of use for most people so what do you have to do then?
As a reminder I do not have to change the oil each year. I do it each fall because its a good practice to do. Just like your truck if you didn’t change oil at 3000 miles they would suggest to change it every year regardless. BTW your engine oil intervals are not 3000 miles. It’s likely 6000 as most newer vehicles are like that. In fact both my vehicles say don’t change oil until the oil change light comes on because it detects the rate at which the oil heats up and knows its time to change.
Gps is a handy tool that helps me find a rock in a 124000 acre lake that holds fish. Good luck with your method. That’s partly why when I fish I’m not out there long. Is let you ride shotgun some time. Just don’t drink all the beer and you better be able to bait your own hook.

Captain. In my owners manual it clearly states oil changes at 3000 mile intervals even with synthetic oil. Clearly marked and easy for one to read. Do you need a copy of it? My Ram is a 2005. No change oil light on it.

GPS may be handy but not needed for the lakes I fish on. I know them like the back of my hand. Depth finder is all that is requried.

Jim,
No one including myself cares if you buy a 4-stroke or not. The issue I have is your misinformation. You tend to talk in circles and cannot even keep track of what you previously wrote. Here are examples:

“I did a top end to my 02 zl 600 and it cost me a day of fun and beer and $400 bucks.” Then here later you refute that:

“Akrider. My old 02 600 efi gets 14-15 mpg. Same as my 09 600. Pretty much the same mileage that they are seeing with the One Ton 1100 four stroke. $400 on a top end? I trade well before I would ever have to think about that. Who wants to keep the same sled for 10,000 miles anyway? I have never had a sled go down since my 1979 Pantera blew a fan belt and melted a piston.”

What is funny to me is how even Arctic Cat admits the F6 will not get the same MPG as the F1100. You claim you get 14-15 MPG. What this tells me is you ride very slowly down hard packed, groomed trails. Your anomosity towards 4-strokes is not due to maintenance or performance concerns but rather with your pride, ego and your delusions that being seen on a 4-stroke somehow makes you less of a rider in the eyes of others. Anyone who gets 14-15 MPG on an F6 is not fast, does not ride hard and is in no way an aggressive rider. Just don’t get too upset when you are passed up on the trails this winter by guys who are bashing the bumps and railing through the twisties on F1100’s. Just go buy a couple more Monster Energy stickers for your F6 and keep living the legend inside your head.

Anyone who’s ridden a modern 4-stroke sled knows you don’t have a clue about what you post and are simply spreading BRP marketing info.

Just go fishing there Captain. I am done with this. I do not want a sled that requires electric start which requires a battery that I am guessing wont make it two years even with a battery tender and then I am out another 150 or so because they are not getting any cheaper. Definately do not want to have to change oil on one either. Would rather add my $25.00/ gallon oil when needed and only have to worry about chain case maintanence and the small things like that. I will let you waste your money on all that stuff. Hope your rich cause you will be spending tons more than I ever will.

Jim R, a good $100 battery will last an easy 5 years. Its fine to like what you have, but wow!!

Howdy! I know this is kinda off topic however , I’d figured I’d ask. Would you be interested in exchanging links or maybe guest authoring a blog article or vice-versa? My blog covers a lot of the same subjects as yours and I think we could greatly benefit from each other. If you might be interested feel free to shoot me an e-mail. I look forward to hearing from you! Excellent blog by the way!

Why do folks judge sleds that are not dedicated trail racing bred by speed? As someone who lives in the north (read cold with lots of snow) my concern is reliability, great fuel economy, light, but capable of pulling or carrying a little extra fuel, a pack on the tunnel with what I need to survive should something fail a hundred kms from home. It should be able to stay on top of the snow, not push it, be good in the sticks and last a few years and have great wind protection. I hate the stink of a 2s and the sound, it conflict with nature (for those of us that respect that) and the Blaaaap of cans is terrible. I’ve looked at Yamaha, Ski-Doo and now Arctic cat (haven’t owned one since I was left stranded by a cat back in the early 80s). Regardless, I haven’t found a sled that fits my need. All of the utilities are too bulky and heavy, few are capable as both trail and off-trail sleds. The others… tracks are too short, 137” is not a long track where I come from. Like I said, none fit the bill and I thing the manufacturers are missing out by not providing an option for the segment of people who appreciated other qualities of a sled, outside of speed that is.

I did look at several Acs yesterday, and the XF 1100 was interesting. My knees kept hitting the cowling, the windshield was too long, not sure the track would cut it either. Bottom line is I may have to forego the weight issue and go with a Skandic LT 600 Ace or Expedition LE E-tec of 1200 4-Tec.

Also wanted to mention that the gain in CCs when choosing a 4s over a 2s is felt immediately on the trigger. It is linear in pull and quite capable.. if your need is just to play, try standing a sled on its tailbone, a 2s may be your flavour. Currently, all of the folks up here are running 4s and the “s” doesn’t stand for sport.

Good luck.

Edit….. that 2nd paragraph should say that the windshield is too low/short, my knees were hitting the hood… I hate spell correct at times.

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You all need to get a real life?

I also came from a 2 stoke to a 4 stroke. I got a XF 1100 na and have 960 miles for the winter. The sled pulls really good until it hits 80 mph and then it’s like the sled hits a wall. I have seen 90 mph at 8800rpm but it takes awhile to get there. The sled is great in the trails and that’s what I really bought it for. But every once in awhile it’s nice to just open it up on a nice flat stretch. So is 90 all I’m going to see and what is the maximum rpm my sled should run at. Thanks

Hi,
I was wanting to know if it is alright to run my 1100 Bearcat on 91 octane gas??? I live in Northern Saskatchewan and I do not trust alot of the gas that is sold here.

Here is what you do. I have the same car.-Go to an auto parts store and buy about 7 or 8 quarts of BMW LL01 Approved Synthetic oil (I use Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula. MAKE SURE IT IS BMW LL01 Approved !!! It will say right on it. There are lists of aprovped oils in almost all of the BMW forums. You should ALWAYS have a spare quart of oil in your trunk.-Buy the filter for your specific car there too. (Don’t skimp on this try to get Bosch. If absolutely necessary, Fram but I would rather not)-Take it to a shop who will do it at an honest price (I have a guy that will do it for $ 20) I would do it myself but unlike my Jeep we can’t exactly crawl underneath these cars and it is nice to see your car up on a lift.-MAKE SURE THEY DON’T OVERFILL IT!!!!! THIS CAN CAUSE THE OIL TO FOAM AND CAN RUIN YOUR ENGINE. QUICK LUBE PLACES ALMOST ALWAYS DO THIS BECAUSE THEY DON’T GIVE THE PROPER WAITING TIME FOR THE OIL TO SETTLE BEFORE CHECKING. CHECK YOURSELF NO MATTER WHAT!!! IT SHOULD BE EXACTLY AT THE FULL LINE AFTER THE CAR HAS BEEN SITTING FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES ON A PERFECTLY FLAT SURFACE.- That aside, with synthetic oil I would change it every 7,000 miles.

I loved my Z1 lxr until I noticed my oil level was increacing and coolant level started to drop. I asked my dealer about any problems and all I got was a song and dance so I talked to a mechanic from another dealer and he told me some 1100’s had bad seals in the water pumps. I pulled the pump out myself and sure enough there was some milky oil behind the oil seal. I went back to my dealer to order the parts and was told most of the parts were on a nation wide back order it only took 5 weeks. Seems odd to me for somthing the isn’t a problem there is quite the demand for these parts!!

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i recently purchased a m1100 turbo proclimb. It has 2000 kms on it. I did oil change and when i started it up it usely reads temp on the spedometer. It did this but after the sled warmed up it put the number 2000 on the speedo and i dont know what that means. The sled has a boondocker on it. would this have something to do with that.

i was wondering if anyone has an idea that can help me. My 2013 m1100 Turbo has some play in the engine. I can put a pry bar in by my secondary and it will move bit. What can i use to stiffen that up? Torque arm bracket?

I have a z1xt 1100 bearcat the best gas mileage I can get is 12 km per gallon

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