No wonder Ski-Doo played mum when the media asked them for details on their “new” and “highly-touted” rear suspension.
The front arm of this rear suspension is a nice copy of the Arctic Cat Slide Action design.
Yep, that same slotted front arm that has been a staple of Arctic Cat suspensions for five years.
While it’s true that every company (including Arctic Cat) occasionally “borrows” good ideas from their competition, it sure seems to me that Arctic Cat is the largest supplier of engineering in the snowmobile industry.
A couple of years ago it was the Polaris/Bender team that literally used an Arctic Cat rear suspension in their Mod snocross sled.
And of course things like the Torque Sensing Link, Extra Travel Tunnel, Pipe Temp Sensors and a dozen other innovations have been adopted by the others.
I for one want to congratulate everyone at Arctic Cat for being so inventive. Makes the green sleds better, and I guess it eventually improves everyone else’s too.
maybe that is the price paid for electronic reverse??? lol
Cat is a step ahead thanx to real engineers who ride a sled and not just a keyboard… now how does one get around the bean counters???
Cat riders have known the truth for years, good things are a result of passion and true vision.
Ya u cant forget about the most important invention, the aws front susp. i remember when all the other mfg. could wait for the patent to run up on that so the could get rid of there tooth pick trailing arms haha.
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!
Now watch the BRP knuckleheads claim it’s their idea, Lol
Seriously !! Snowmobile brands have been swapping ideas for 40 plus years, like this is news. Sorry cat, BRP didn’t complain when you BEGGED for the rights to the RER, get over it. Cat sleds still get 10mpg while skidoo gets 15mpg with the same HP.
Oh ya, those thieves at BRP even stole the power valve idea that cat had since 1989.Darn my bad cat stole that from brp
U arctic cat guys need to get over yourselves…. Yea doo stole the floating front arm Idea, PooPoo and Cat begged doo for RER (and got it) then doo came out with the rider forward design… Everyone copied that also…. Polaris came out with the EFI 2 stroke in the 80’s but I don’t see you yelling at cat because they modified that design….. Yamaha was the first in the industry with a performance 4 stroke, I don’t see a complaint about cat stealing that idea….
Indeed every brand has borrowed smart ideas from other brands, including Arctic Cat doing the borrowing, as I mentioned in the post. For the record, and in my opinion, rider-forward and engine reverse are two absolutely stellar ideas. Ski-Doo is to be highly commended for both. And my occasional perusal of other forums suggests that, when Cat does borrow some tech, it’s called out, which is fine. To correct a few false/misleading statements in the comments though…Cat didn’t copy EFI from Polaris. Each came out with it within 12 months of each other. And Arctic Cat was working on a performance 4 stroke prior to Yamaha unveiling the RX-1. Significant engineering projects like EFI, an entirely new engine or a new chassis don’t go from concept-to-creation in 1-2 years. More like 3-or-more years, depending on the scale/complexity/cost.
Last I checked, this site was called ARCTIC Insider…why do people who ride other brands feel the need to go to this site? Off to Totally Yamahahahaha I go!
John said it best.
Look, Poo copied it because its the best, however, if they copied it so close to the AC patent then I hope AC sues their arses 🙂
Likely BRP will try to build it so light that it will fall apart after hitting a gopher mound, heehee.
Being it is on there race sled I really dont think it matters what they do. If they move it to full production then Cat may have something to deal with if they have not already. Just proves that the best stuff comes from Cat.
to be honest with all of you i ride doo because its what i like. i ride with guy that own them and they keep breaking on them after buying new parts after they have installed the parts on right. they all steal idea’s from one another. they always have. if one sues one there all going to start sueing each other. they all break at one point or another. and everyone knows that. kinda funny how one guy on here says that brp is going to make the sled so light that it will break on a goofer hole. then why is it every time i turn around a guy on a m8 has a broke A arms? bulk head needs fixed. poo dont break that often either. sry but were i live the ac dealer has moved several times because they cant move them out the door. but poo and doo dont have that problem. just sayin.
John,
Please don’t mention BRP or Ski-Doo in titles! Guys on Doo Talk must have some poweful search engine that homes right in on this stuff!
Skidoo didnt invent rider forward. Cat had that for a few years in there race department. On a race prototyp sled plans but when skidoo took blair morgan over to doo he took the ideas with him. Wala reider forward was invented??
It is, what it is. Another example of great engineering being copied. BRP evidentally, isn’t too excited to let the public know “what” the “updated” rear skid specs are, yet…Because, I still haven’t found any details/pictures on this rear skid anywhere but, here and SLEDRACER.com. That alone is pretty interesting…
Nothing has been stolen by anybody. These things are all done on technology exchanges, or licensing agreements, etc. This suspension technology was likely exchanged for direct fuel injection technology. I believe the reports that stated the RER tech was exchanged with Cat for the use of a name that Cat owned, Jag or Panther, or something like that. So when we see E-Tech on Arctic Cat engines, again (a Tiger Shark PWC had the OMC direct injection), in the near future we will know at least part of what was paid for it.
Lynx was the name BRP wanted. D’oh!
3 things:
If the Tiger Shark had DI, then why would Cat need E-Tec technology from Doo. Second of all, Cat has had a DI patent for some time already, its just being tested.
Third: If some dude’s M8 Aarms are broke, he sure ain’t mountain riding now is he. just sayin.
bahahaha NICE move ski-doo!!!!! “Oh, um yeah we got this here new skidframe and it’s pretty sweet. Been used for 7 race seasons so we KNOW that it works because we sure as hell can’t get ours to.”
You Doo guys don’t get your panties all in a bundle it’s all fun and games. If not go back to Dootalk and drink some more yellow Kool-Aid.
Arctics primary strangely looks like the Polaris P85. On the F series Cats is the cracked tunnel and broken bulkhead an option or standard equipment? They all borrow ideas from each other. Get over it.
This is great entertainment! John, you’re a wizzard at presenting news and photos that stir up interest and controversy in our sport! I’m a die hard Arctic Cat man, but what ever brand you choose, you’re probably still my friend! …John Zanon
Jim R, even if it is on the race sled, if there is an infringement of any type, it could mean they would have to remove it from the race sled. Polaris copied the “hot start” button or dragon button I think they called it several years ago and had to remove it during the race season.
I remember back in the 1996-97 (I think) season. Polaris came out with with Cat’s Easy-Adjust system (the front arm control via Fox shocks) on their race sleds. If I remember correctly, they lasted one race until the lawyers got involved and forced the adjustment mechanism OFF the sleds.
I think the reason they had to remove that easy adjust from there sleds was because it was more of a production sled as anyone could buy one. The local Polaris dealer had a couple that they were going to sell but had to pull it off before a non racer could buy it.
BRB’s DFI came from OMC when they bought them. The tech belonged to FICHT which was bought by OMC which in turn was bought by BRP. The tiggershark has a great DFI engine, but it only revs to 6000rpm because the technology was just being developed to run at 12000rpm.
Since then BRP sat on the tech and when they brought it out they were “Look what we invented” hype
Captain, Polaris copied it from an individual…. no factory came up with that. I know the guy personally and the last I knew he was looking for some compensation when Polaris traded it for access to the M10 suspension.
Go further back and see what came from where, it gets interesting. Cat invented the slide rail suspension concept back in about 1966. All sleds today owe Roger Skime a thank you for that one. Too many internet trolls don’t want to talk about that mostly because they just don’t know or remember. I get asked all the time at vintage shows how I can possibly stand to ride a vintage Cat for more than 15 minutes. Sorry, but because of that same slide rail suspension that still works good when tuned right, it really doesn’t ride all that bad for its age. Eons ahead of bogies that were STILL being sold by other companies at the same time. I know things have changed a lot with todays machines, but I still find myself gravitating towards the black and green. Feels like home.
That poo P85 clutch was modeled after the Comet 102 clutch. You see, poo copies everyone.
But let’s look at the basics of today’s sleds. Rivoted aluminum tunnel, slide rail suspension, front mounted engines and flip up hoods. Cat created those basic building blocks for our snowmobiles.
Imagine what the others would look and ride like if they didn’t copy those ideas? How about yamaha and their TSS and trailing arms. Polaris and their trailing arm. And wonderful Ski-Don’t trailing link, PRS, sliding square stock, a-arm (safari) and trailing arm. Wow! That’s a lot of front suspensions to try before copying cats Double-A.
I could go on and on about cats innovations by being the first to sell an IFS sled to the public, offer IFP shocks on stock sleds and full plastic skis, but that’s what books are for.
Some manufacturers are innovators, the others are poo, yamaha and ski-don’t
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all you guys are talkin about is how the different companies are “stealing” or “borrowing” each others ideas. Try changing the subject!
We already know that cat is better looking, better performing, more reliable, and more reasonably priced than the rest, simply put cat rules! end of topic………………next?
Hey Ralph,Thanks for your comment. There are no currnet recalls or campaigns on any 2011 Summit E-TEC series models regarding this issue. If the vehicle is still in break-in however, the E-TEC engine management system controls certain engine parameters that slightly reduce the engine performance. During the break-in period, you may notice some conditions including, but not limited to, reduced power, vibrations and/or occasional misfire at times. If the condition is present after the break-in period, see a Ski-Doo dealer during the 2011 warranty period.
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